Emails being circulated by Christian groups say the new Nicole Kidman film -- which hasn't been released yet -- is part of an atheist plot to indoctrinate children with anti-religious ideas. Secularist groups, believe it or not, complain that the film isn't anti-religious enough!
Here's a novel idea: maybe folks should actually go see this movie when it opens on December 7 and make up their own minds instead of getting verklempt over something they haven't even been exposed to yet.
Or would that just take all the fun out of it?
Discuss it with About.com's Christianity Guide, Mary Fairchild.
Read more...
Here's a novel idea: maybe folks should actually go see this movie when it opens on December 7 and make up their own minds instead of getting verklempt over something they haven't even been exposed to yet.
Or would that just take all the fun out of it?
Discuss it with About.com's Christianity Guide, Mary Fairchild.
Read more...
Comments
Gee…”we should go see the movie and decide for ourselves”. Or perhaps we should use the internet to educate ourselves before spending money that will be given to the makers of this irrelevent film. It is no secret that the purpose of Pullman’s books is to destroy religion. The little girl’s quest is to kill God by the third book. But of course, you haven’t bothered to research that or you would have to admit that the Catholic league and other Christian organizations have a point. We aren’t asking to ban the movie…it is your free will to spend your hard earned cash. We are asking Christians to draw a line in the sand and let Hollywood know that attacks against God must stop. ‘Nuff said.
This is not Urban Legend and Folklore. It is True: The movie is based on Books which are about “Killing God”
True: The 2007 film “The Golden Compass” is based on a series of books with anti-religious themes.
http://snopes.com/politics/religion/compass.asp
David, Here’s another novel idea: maybe folks should actually place their hand over an open flame. That way they could make up their own minds as to whether they would get burned or not. You must be right, I guess I’m just getting verklempt over something I haven’t even been exposed to yet.
love the urban legend section of about.com and visit it often… however now i must agree with the others who commented right before me. the author makes it clear how he feels about Christianity and even the ‘Chronicles of Narnia’ and CS Lewis. it’s not really up for debate, it’s fact. now whether or not one goes to see it – like someone else said sure, you have that choice. but it is what it is…
I read the book and the 1st sequel (the Subtle Knife) and therefore I don’t need to see the movie to know that it is pushing atheism, packaged for children. Not to mention the premise includes Nicole Kidman’s character luring and kidnapping children to be killed for the purposes of generating ‘energy’ for a scientific process. Wonder how they’ll get around one, huh? Probably should give them my $$ to find out.
I’m glad that Jen said “nuff said” and Rochelle said “it’s not really up for debate” but I wished they had waited until I had left my opinion. Oh well I guess it’s too late since they have it figured out.
Interestingly, only one of the above commenters had read the books. My question, why is okay to leave “The Narnia Chronicles” (which I have read) on the shelf and in the movie theatres and not “The Golden Compass” trilogy. Is it perhaps because “The Golden Compass” encourages our children to question the all powerful church and adults that follow it without thinking whereas “The Narnia Chronicles” glorifies Christianity? Is it because CS Lewis became “perfected” when he converted to Christianity and Philip Pullman is a self-professed atheist? I just don’t understand why Christians feel so threatened when their children are encouraged to think! I read “The Golden Compass” with our 12 year old and encourage others to read it before denouncing it. Of course, that would be asking alot, certain people would have to think without being told what to think. Recall the Harry Potter nonsense.
There are truths in this world: 2+2=4, Golden Compass=anti-God. Please, go ahead and leave the Compass books on the shelf and the movie in the theatre. We (the followers of the one true God) just shouldn’t spend our $ on them when their promotion is packaged in pretty pictures and the true themes are blatantly hidden from view. Catherine, Christians are never afraid of their children thinking; in fact it is encouraged. Some of the greatest thinkers were Christians: Aquinas, Augustine, St. Francis, JPII. I don’t need to touch fire to know I will be burned and I don’t need to read “The Golden Compass” to know it is a rejection of God. I played that game already w/ “The DaVinci Code.” They’re not taking my money again.
Apparently this writer has the same alterior motive that the writer of the books has. Why on earth would I take my kids to see a movie based on books PROVEN to be anti-Christian?
Duhh.
I think we will save our money to see the Narnia movies based on books this writer hates. At least the quality of those books has been proven whether you are Christian or not.
I am a follower of Christ, and I will be seeing the movie and reading the books. Even knowing they are likely to portray a pro-atheistic view of the world, I want to be able to engage in informed dialog with my colleages and friends who will see the movie. I will likely even have my eldest two children see it with me, since most of their friends will be seeing it, and the topic is sure to come up. The Apostle Paul did not shy away from the Greek temple complexes and their array of idols and pagan practices. He walked among them and noticed that the people were even concerned about offending an “unknown god”. Paul used that opportunity to make the One True God known to them! So may it be with this movie! People will be challenged to rethink their nominal faith–their cultural christianity (i.e., their thinking that they are Christian just because they were born into homes that practiced some form of Christianity)–and that may open doors to introduce them to the Lord of All!
The books are wondeful. They portray a FICTIONAL world where magic is real, witches wear pointy hats and ride on broomsticks, and polar bears wear armor and can talk. So far, this seems to be describing a work of FANTASY.
It does portray a religion-like organization which is obsessed with dogmatism over truth, to the point of harming others to disprove evidence of the magic others use. Hmmm. Ever hear of the Spanish Inquisition? How about persecution of the leaders of the Protestant Reformation? What about burning people at the stake for simply quoting scripture? Torturing supposed witches to death? You folks are right. Religion is NOTHING like the organization portrayed in these books.
Sheesh. Any fictional organization modeled after these very real behaviors, which ALL modern religions have rejected, should be portrayed as evil. Trying to link the books, somehow, to a destruction of modern religion, however, is a huge stretch.
In response to “Jen”. It seems that the main concern is children in this. Being a Christian myself and having a child of my own, I would hope that good Christians would have taught and lead their children to know that God is real and that no movie or fictional book could ever make him disappear. If you feel that your children or other children are so naieve then it is the parents who are not guiding their children properly in their knowledge of God. Books and movies are only imaginary escapes and God is an everyday reality. God gave us the right to choose. And he trusts us to know the difference between truth and ficiton and to choose accordingly.
First I just have to say, I am in absolute awe at the shear number of ill informed opinions here.If you haven’t read the books then you really have no basis for argument It’s time for a reality check folks, this is a series of fiction books we are talking about here, fantasy…..make believe. It is clear to any thinking human being that it is a fantasy right from page one.
Is our faith so weak that it can be crumbled by a story??
Have we become so lazy as parents that we need someone else to tell us what to let our children read and watch???
I bought these books for my 8 year old at the school book fair. Prompted by the email I received 4 days ago, I read the first book myself. I couldn’t put it down.
The Golden Compass is the best book I’ve read in years and I can’t wait to finish the series and see the movie.
Will I let my daughter read it? Honestly, not for a few years, I simply don’t think she’s up to the challenge of a story this big yet.
But let me just say this , imagination is a good thing people.
Oh , and I can’t help but notice that a lot of you sound just like the “church” in the book…..ironic huh?
My “drawing the line in the sand” comment has nothing to do w/ children forming their own opinions. Any person/child rooted in faith won’t be swayed by these books or anyone’s views. But if you are a follower of God, why would you want to offend Him by spending money on trash that is clearly against Him? And Paul may have stood at pagan temples and preached, but he certainly did not offer sacrifices at these temples or give them his money. He stood there to pull these poor souls away from a losing faith and a hope of the one true God. Know the difference and don’t give your money to these pagans. It blows my mind that people state that these books (Golden Compass, Davinci Codes) are great reads while their themes are trashing the God they state they follow. So I guess if an author wrote a fabulous book about your mother being a whore and racist, you would tout the book to your friends and pony up the cash to see the great film. Unbelievable…
As a Christian I would have no fear in taking my children to see the movie. I have read Pullman’s whole series and although there are clearly anti-religious themes, the Golden Compass is a work of FICTION! I would never consider my children to be so weakminded that they would question their faith based on a fantasy from one author’s imagination. I think this could be a great opportunity for parents to talk with their kids about the differences between fantasy and reality, how organized religions have made mistakes in the past (and why), and how Pullman’s “god-like” enemy is clearly not God as described in the Bible.
Secondly, Pullman’s book is on an upper middle school to high school reading level. Elementary kids who pick up the book after seeing the movie will be disappointed to find the vocabulary, sentence structure, and plot too difficult to manage. Chances are that the UNDERLYING themes which are gaining so much attention won’t even be picked up by most students. Even my high school students that I teach miss these themes in the first book. If Pullman was in-fact trying to warp young minds, then his missed the opportunity for writing way over their heads.
This movie has as much potential of making a Christian and Atheist, as “The Chronicles of Narnia” does of turning an Atheist into a Christian.
Peopl,People! Come on…do you have a ring in your nose!? Nobody is forcing Anybody to spend a dime to see this movie…the more hipe and emails protesting it, the more people want to go and see it, duh! I had no interest in going until a friend sent me an email protesting it.Tho I will wait til it comes on cable…Gee how many of you stop on the hwy’s when there is an accident, you looky-loos cant help it, can ya!? The more people react to this like the Da Vinci Code, the Passion, Pans Labyrinth, good God even Harry Potter gets put on the same list and in time it will pass until the next issue…the last time I checked this is America and I have the right to choose what to wear,eat,watch,listen and do! I think everyone needs to put more effort in our families,keeping your jobs,get more healthy, help someone in need…you need to get a life and stop the maddness over a movie…its…a…MOVIE,duh!
Oh, and by the way I am Catholic and proud it too…but I dont let the media or any emails persuade me…I DO have a mind and a backbone…do YOU!?
Mr. Emery,
“Thanks” for the smug non-comment on this question.
I suppose if someone sends you a question about whether smoking is good for children your response would be that people should “go buy a pack and make up their own minds instead of getting verklempt over something they haven’t even been exposed to yet.”
I have no idea whether “The Golden Compass” promotes atheism or not. If it does, Christian parents don’t want to expose themselves or their children to such a film.
Your response leads me to fear that you are among the godless, morally adrift crowd. But I believe that God gives you the right to be so.
Even if that is true, all we are asking is for an objective review of what facts you can gather… not to be treated like mindless imbeciles.
for Bill McGee – sadly not everything done in the name of Christianity is necessarily Christian
I guess if there is a god to kill in the books, then they are acknowledging the existence of god, and therefore not atheist.
Very interesting comments. I just received the Snoops e-mail, and immediately did a search to find more information on the movie. Thanks so much for sharing all your varying opinions. I’ll probably just see it when it’s on cable, just like all the other movies that come out. Because I don’t get to the movies much. (I have 4 little kids). BTW: I’m a CS Lewis fan, and a Christian. I appreciate being notified of the potential propaganda.
In response to Lisa: Yeah, sure, people would never use a fictional book or movie to spread their own personal vendetta. Nope, would never happen, and never has. And if even did happen, yeah right, like people would actually fall for it.
Ok, now for the reality check, IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME, AND IT IS EFFECTIVE, and it is usually people such as yourself that fall for it.
I have to agree with Katie about using this novel to teach Christianity in your own home. The problem lies with parents who choose to give their children books, videogames, and movies that might have differing beliefs without talking to them. Discussing differing beliefs only help to build a child’s individual belief system and trust in their faith. When a child discovers something for him/herself (obviously with some guidance from parents) they are able to to defend their faith and are more likely to stick with it than those that are forced into it and never given the opportunity to understand.
I went to a Catholic high school in which _The Golden Compass_ was taught. Yes, we read this “anti-religion” book in a parochial school. Instead of shying away from it and pretending that opposing view points don’t exist and that if people believe different things from others, they shouldn’t be able to write a book about it, let it become a teaching mechanism. Our school read it for its literary analysis as well as the religious discussion it spawned. As a parent, a book like _The Golden Compass_ can not only be used to help improve a child’s literacy, but also to spring board the discussion of religion in the household brought on by the inquisitive child, not the parent.
Just some food for thought. I am not usually a blogger of sorts, but I felt that maybe some perspective is in order–it is not an attempt to end Christianity and brainwash our children. If you don’t want to read it, fine. But don’t judge those who do.
I think that everyone needs to read Fahrenehit 451–just burn the books because then no one can be tempted. So, I leave you with one of the most memorable quotes from the whole book.
The Captain: “Go on, Montag, all this philosophy, let’s get rid of it. It’s even worse than the novels. Thinkers and philosophers, all of them saying exactly the same thing: ‘Only I am right! The others are all idiots!’”
Very interesting, for myself, I received an e-mail:
“Don’t go see Bruce Allmighty it is blasphemous!!”
Guess what, I loved the movie!! I believe everyone should see it in order to see how they should pray for one…
Received something similar about Click starring Adam Sandler…Guess what? I LOVED THE MOVIE AND I AM A CHRISTIAN!!
Teach your children the true christianity and to see the truth and you will never have to worry about a movie. Teach them the difference between fantasy and reality. If there are truths in the movie, help them understand. I am not saying to take a 5 year old to see the movie. You will know whether your child is ready to see the movie.
But please, don’t underestimate my intelligence in asking me “not to go see the movie cause it will make you an atheist.”.
Looking forward to learning something new…
To Heather
I never mentioned a vendetta of any kind, so where that comment comes from I don’t know.
And I also don’t see why you feel the need to attack me personally,”it is usually people such as yourself that fall for it.”
You don’t know me or anything about me.
My point is, as others here have pointed out, if a person’s faith and belief system are so weak that a book or movie can sway them………….well they have bigger things to worry about than what books to read.
I’ve been a Catholic all my life, and no work of fiction no matter how well written is going to make me otherwise.
Watership Down did not make me a rabbit,The Lord of the Rings did not make me a Hobbitt, and this book will not make me or my children atheists.
As a Christian and a human I am much more concerned about the effects of Saw 4 than The Golden Compass.
To those who have commented that the movie/book is fiction and who commented on those of us you believe to be “weak faith”, it has nothing to do with that. Fiction or not, as Christians we are to obey the Father and the Father tells us to sustain from worldly influence. So, if we choose not to read the books and/or see the movie, it is because our faith is strong, not weak. But I do not expect you to understand that.
The refusal of people to tolerate or accept things that are different is the main reason we have to listen to all this diatribe on a fantasy movie. I have read fantasy books for years where Gods have died or been defied and have not taken away the need to change my religious beliefs or affiliations.
Pullman’s statement was very accurate when he said that many good and bad things have been done in the name of religion. Just look at the current administration for a perfect exmaple. Because he chooses to be part of a secular religion where he takes direct accountability for his own actions and does not claim he did or is doing it in the name of God, he is being labeled as a religious usurper. I teach my children to embrace and celebrate the differences in people and in doing so, we have learned how similar we all really are.
Say… for all of you who believe that Christianity is the ONE WAY to access the ONE TRUE GOD (the Christian God I’m supposing), then by all means, you probably shouldn’t spend your money seeing this movie nor buying the book… you’re probably already too narrow-minded to consider anything outside of that doctrine.
But for those of us who have a broader range of religion & believe that most religions generally lead to the ONE GOD OF ALL OF US *AND* if the book & movie are indeed messages against Christian theology & doctrine, then I have no problem with seeing this movie & discussing with my children. (BTW — I love Jesus & believe that He is my pathway to God, but also believe that Buddha is that “person” for others.)
Nuff said!
I read the books when I was in elementary school and am rereading them now. Interpreting these books as an anti-religious statement is a huge stretch. Reading them did not turn me into a horrible person or an atheist and seeing the movie wont either. Parents, it’s time to realize that your children are smart enough to distinguish between fantasy and reality and stop over analyzing every book and movie that comes their way.
You have the right to question God if you chose to do so. I have no reason to, and will stand up for my right to inform myself before giving money over to an anti-God movie. The hook of the movie is to get kids interested in the author’s books. When they are hooked, he hopes that they will share his views and go against God. This movie is directed at an age group that can not make decisions on these issues by themselves. This is why parents must intervene.
To the Saw 4 comment…
That movie is not promoted to our young children. This one is, and I would not let my children view that movie either. Parents have stand up for what is right for their children.
Why would you want to make a movie to bring children in and make think? oh I know because your going to kill GOD supposedly(HE LIVES FOREVER) so you can try to make children think its cool to kill GOD. What do atheist believe in nothing or energy sounds fun. I would rather believe in a GOD named JESUS CHRIST that died for you sins and yes you sin daily just like me but I ask for repentance daily. Than believe follow some Darwin want to be just making up some pure evil so you could follow. READ JOHN 3:16 Its ok if you want to go down and believe you crap but dont bring your children down with you with there brains being like sponges. Iam Christian and I BELIEVE IN THE ONE THE ONLY GOD JESUS CHRIST and you atheist you know he lives and you will know when you see HIM face to face and your thinking I should’ve believed in GOD but I wanted to be cool you have a great day man and GOD BLESS YOU hopefully you will see sooner than later. JC
To Pam, you are seriously misguided in your faith! You claim to “Love Jesus” yet you dis-credit Him, His authority, and His sacrifice. Jesus did not die so that people could come to know “Buddah” or any other “god” for that matter, He died so that through His sacrifice everyone may come to know Him and have eternal life. Jesus said it himself “I am the way, the truth, and the life no-one comes to the father except through me”. This verse clearly states that there is ONE way to God- and that way is Jesus.
Dan, compairing people placing their hand over an open flame to going and watching an athiest movie was a very bad compairison. Given that open flames ARE REAL.
I completely agreee with you i mean come on people this is pathetic if they actually went and saw the movie or even READ the books they would understand that it is so far from reality that there is no way it is true! and plus it is FICTION!! as NOT real, made up! i really hope people get out of this constant path of concrete thinking because it is very juvinial
Why would we go see the movie when we know that it is anti- God? We would just be supporting the movie. In God We Trust
I have read the books and I am NOT an atheist. I’m Christian. yes, the books are about killing God, but there are many more sub-plots that can be much more intriguing. and true the point of the books is to get kids to convert to atheism, but, hell-O people, kids can make choices. vim twelve and am definitely not stupid enough to convert. the books are, at most places, YA or young adult. People would read them can think! Just because a person reads them does not make them God-Bashers! I think the point I’m trying to make is that you should figure out that the books are going to make you a atheist reading Zombie! as I said earlier, the books have sub plots. these plots are about loving one another, forgiveness, and karma! Those are all Christian morals!!! And if you are going to be stupid enough to not give them a chance, go ahead! that makes you an Frikin Moron!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
oh yeah, and look at this website:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21595083/
i think that you should not waste your money by watching a movie that you are against.
The small mindedness never ceases to amaze me. Are you people so insecure in your faith that you are actually challenged by a work of fiction. The intolerance and reactionism of anything you deem as ‘anit-christian” underscores your need to shout down anything with which you don’t agree, or don’t understand. Aren’t you people late for your book burning? Pathetic
If some of the more narrow-minded commenters had bothered reading the books, they would find themselves drawn into a more intelligent debate. The fact remains that those who are content not to challenge the status quo will always be threatened by those of us who constantly seek to challenge the status quo. They will sit comfortably in their freedom to wallow in ignorance while others are taking risks dissecting the truth.
Pullman is a creative investigator who deplores tyrrany of ideas. Isn’t that something we can all get behind?
I feel that people are being to judgemental, being supposed good christians and than turning around and judging others. What gives them the right? well anyway people, You can find darkness, evil, satanism, whatever bs you wanna call it in almost everything, that is if you go looking for it or if you want to find it. A friend of mine, a preacher of 43 years, gave me some advice about darkness, he said if you go searching for darkness you’ll find it. Even in the most familiar of places.
Hi, My name is Russ and I’d like to tell you about something that everyone should take to mind. There is darkness in everything if you are looking for darkness. I understand where you all are coming from, but honestly are you judging mr. pullman as you yourself would like to be judged?? You might as well close your eyes, blind and deafen your child, and close out the world. We live in a world where sin is everywhere, a harmless little fairytale won’t make anything worse. You might as well say that “Veggie Tales” “The pokey little puppy” “The little engine that could”, and “cinderella” are all satanic stories. The only person able to find the evil in something so easily, must have that same evil itself. One monkey knows another monkey when he sees one.
I have no plans to see this movie. As a Christian I do not feel good about it. That is my right. I believe in the white throne judgement, that I will have to answer to God one day for all the things I have done or not done. I will just stay away. I in no way wish to put one dime in an atheist’s pocket. I will pray for the author of this book though. The Bible tells us to pray for our enemies.
The problem with The Golden Compass is not that it presents ‘another viewpoint’. The problem with the story authored by Pullman is that it has no positive message that stands by itself. Rather, it presents an entirely negative message aimed at denigrating a particular group of people and their belief system. The whole point of the book is to portray Christianity as evil and to ‘kill God in the minds of children’. The book’s author says so.
There are many books and movies that celebrate the diverse peoples, cultures and belief systems. Does that mean that we should be equally accepting and open to books and movies that denigrate and ridicule those same peoples, cultures or belief systems? There is only one belief system that is consistently ridiculed and attached in our popular culture: Christianity. An author that deliberately attacked any other belief system in the way that Pullman attacks Christianity would be rightfully branded a biggot.
Pullman has no positive message of his own to convey, only the desire to spread his own hatred of others’ belief system.
As a Christian, why would you want to support someone who hates GOD? It is not a matter of the book making you an atheist, or about being able to think for yourself. These books are about the denial of God’s existence and killing God. As a Christian, you need to pray about it and ask yourself why you would promote anti-God propaganda, even if its fiction. Pornographic films are “fiction” and a Christian shouldn’t be supporting that, either… Christians need to check their motives and ask themselves if they are here to do God’s will, or to be entertained. Our country suffers because too many of us Christians compromise for the sake of entertainment. I say this as much to myself as to any other brothers and sisters who read it. God bless you, and may your relationship with Him deepen.
As a Christian I won’t be seeing the movie or reading the books, not because I don’t know different view points, because I do, but because I go to the movies and read to enjoy myself. Reading a book whose whole aim is to turn children toward atheism, the authors own goal, wouldn’t be enjoyable. For people on here that are saying that the Christians on here aren’t making an informed opinion are mistaken. You can do any Internet search and read interviews with the author where he clearly states these goals. My children’s faith is strong to survive, but I don’t need to subject themselves to such hatred of the God they love.
In fairness of full disclosure, my comments are from a Buddhist perspective and from someone that has read all three of the books in the Dark Matter trilogy.
First and formost, the trilogy is about a clash between science and religion. It is one character from the books, who is a scientist, Lord Asrael, Lyra’s father, who is trying to destroy a false god known in the books as the Almighty. The books are also as story about what really hold the universe together, dark matter, and alternate realities (string theory).
The titles of the books are The Golden Compass (an instrument of truth), The Subtle Knife, and The Amber Spyglass. In the final book, Lyra and the owner of the Subtle knife, Will, have to make a journey to the Underworld to free the souls of the dead. To my point of view, this is a very spiritual, not religious, journey that these children are required to make.
To me, it is more important that the spiritual lessons from the books not be lost in the discussion that those who have already passed judgement on are having here. Even from an atheist, there is a wonderful parable that was written in the books about destroying false gods in order to find what is real. If there truly is a God, he belongs to no one, but to everyone, no matter what religious beliefs you have. The books focus on spiritual themes, not specifically religious ones. Where Philip Pullman lives in England, the Catholic church is dominant, so that is why it plays a dominant role in is story.
People, read the books; prove me wrong. They were written to challenge the readers concepts of what is real. It does not promote atheism.
the difference between the golden compass and the chronicles of narnia is the hidden agenda and the way they are marketed. the chronicles of narnia are openly pro-christian and they do not expect to grab a large athiest audience in the hopes of converting them. it is an uplifting allegory meant to reinfornce the already instilled beliefs in christians. the golden compass is hidden and sneaky in how it gets its message to kids. it hopes to draw in an unsuspecting religious audience with the intent of showing them how incorrect their beliefs or the beliefs of their parents are. children are impressionable and it is your job as a parent to protect them from harmfull thought and rhetoric. your job is to raise them so they are capable of making informed decisions once they are adults, not to subject them to equal parts good and evil at an early age.
These books are FICTIONAL. Got that? FICTIONAL. What exactly is a story going to do? It was invented purely for our entertainment. You dont like the book? Then dont read it! And dont make a big deal about people who do! It is a persons right to read what they want to, no matter what religion they are part of.
the man who wrote the books isn’t shy about his views on hating God and religion … i don’t need to see the movie before i form opinions on it … the writer is the one that has formed my opinions about it by what he has said … he’s anti-God and i want nothing to do with his books or the movie!
California public schools have been sent large movie posters promoting “The Golden Compass”. Its a gorgeous color glossy picture of the girl and the polar bear. It also include suggestions for lesson plans – tied to the CA standards for teaching English. There is a link to a website where children can ‘take a test’ to ‘discover’ their own deamon animal. – a teacher.
I am a Christianand the talk about this movie makes me sick. They probably wont even make it to the sequal but the point is to get kids to buy the books. I dont like the idea of the movie but i am interested in seeing it on direct tv later to see how it contrasts with ‘Narnia’
What’s most hilarious about all these Christian “perspectives” is that not one of them includes the realization that “His Dark Materials” was, first and foremost, an exercise in expanding “Paradise Lost” into a children’s-fiction trilogy. I guess people who’re intellectually too lazy to come up with a solution other than “god” for the way the universe works wouldn’t bother to read Milton (or even Pullman), so it’s not really surprising, but still. This also makes referring to the books as “trash” a pretty interesting move, considering I’m pretty sure that no one making these comments is really in a position to judge the creations of John Milton.
After reading all these comments I decided to read excerpts of the book, as well as interviews with the author. I don’t need to read the entire book to understand that this book is directly opposed to every Christian principle in the New Testament, or every God inspired tenet in the old testament. I guess what it comes down to is go see the movie if you don’t share in the ideology of Yaweh or Christ. You can’t have it both ways. Anyone who reads the book can see that these two ideologies are in opposition. If you want to give your money to something in direct opposition to your beliefs, call it open mindedness if you will, but at least be honest. You are contributing to something in direct oppsotion to your beliefs. That’s not open minded, it’s hypcritical. Christ had a lot to say about hypocites. Look it up.
In response to Molly… the last time I looked, Paradise Lost, like Golden Compass, ARE works of fiction… so what do they have to do with the way the universe works? There’s a perfect example of someone getting lost between fantasy and reality. And you don’t think there’s any danger of children getting THEIR “realities” mixed up?
It’s funny how there are so many people that think this movie shouldn’t be seen, because of its anti-religion underlayings. Yet these are the same people that wanted the entire world to see the likes of Narnia, with its subtle yet pro-religion underlayings.
So what you’re all saying is that everyone should bow to conformity of religion…? And there are a great number of people that are saying this.
That makes the subtle point of this story to actually be true. How ironic. Be religious, or you are in the wrong…
Thanks, but I WILL be seeing this movie…
I have enjoyed reading so many comments both pro and con. My reaction to the movie is more based on reading all three books and also listening and reading Mr. Pullmans’ comments about both. Pullman does not shy away from the he fact that he is pushing an agenda. Mr. Pullman in his comments is not surprising since he is one of the standard bearers for the atheist movement in the United Kingdoms. In response to a few comments that these works are fiction and fiction doesn’t really matter, I believe that they really believe this they should examine history. Works like 1984, Brave New World, Fahrenheit 451 and Animal Farm, just to name a few are also fiction, but they had a dramatic impact on how people think and interact with the world. I do believe that everyone should be able to interact with fiction any way they choose, but I think the greater point is that we should also be informed as we go about doing that. Christian websites, etc. which call attention to the fact that Pullman wrote his trilogy to advance an antireligious agenda, are only informing and educating. How people choose to interact with that is up to them. They could do a number of different things, but the fact that a movie that I have seen a sneak preview, which really is a watered down version of the book, might encourage someone to get the books for their kids without knowing their agenda is more of the problem. It really is like bait and switch.
Oh my goodness! An anti-religion movie! But if people see this, they will start to question Bill Donohue and Pat Robertson, and then God(tm) really will die!
Who cares, the movie is probably feel-good, consumerist crap – much like one consumes weekly at any number of churches.
You people are a bunch of sheep.
Hahah, no kidding “Paradise Lost” is fiction, as is “His Dark Materials”; both posit that some kind of god exists, so what else would they be. And I said nothing about THEM explaining how the universe works. My point was that absolutely no one writing all these anti-Pullman statements has read the books, or understands where the idea for the books came from…and that’s because they prefer NOT to investigate things in general, when they can just be told what to believe. It’s laziness, like accepting that the universe was somehow designed, even though that makes absolutely no sense, instead of trying to figure out scientifically how things work. It really doesn’t matter anyway; by not reading my comment closely you just further proved my point.
I just had to leave a comment because I think it is so funny how so many people are protesting this movie and these books. That is going to ensure that they make movies two and three because more people will watch it that may have never wanted to, due to it being a kids movie or just not knowing what it was about… so thank you, thank you…
Now, I consider myself a very religious person, I believe in God and I was taught in my religion to ask questions, think for myself and that I’m responsible for ALL of my choices… I have also read the books and loved the literary talent found in them. Although, they have many religious tones in them and even the author is a self-professed Atheist, I found other meanings to what he is writing. History is full of horrible things that were done in the name of religion. In fact they are still happening today. Let’s face it Christianity is not the only religion that has done bad things… but read here what the author was saying in the books.
Funny enough that is want I got out of all the books too… Evil is evil and has no place in society and good is good and should be embraced… the religion or face of it, is not the questions….. but how it is used.. the fruits it bears those are all signs of whether it is good or bad… Think about it and remember it is after all a FANTASY book, meant to entertain… so be entertained… talk to your kids and enjoy life!!
Going to see the movie would be analogous to trying crack to see if it is addictive. I don’t have to spend money and time going to see the movie. Researching it on the web is sufficient.
I agree with a comment placed above, here’s a novel idea, Dave place your hand over an open fire and learn for yourself. These books and movies are a prime example of the bigotry atheists and other secular systems of belief, blame on Christians. By the end of the trilogy the kids “kill God”. C.S. Lewis, after his conversion, was a great defender of the faith and he taught one of the most amazing things about defending your faith. He essentially said that you are not to “debunk” someone else’s beliefs you defend your own extremely well. So please get off your high horse, and present facts not your overrated and off base comments.
“To those who have commented that the movie/book is fiction and who commented on those of us you believe to be “weak faith”, it has nothing to do with that. Fiction or not, as Christians we are to obey the Father and the Father tells us to sustain from worldly influence. So, if we choose not to read the books and/or see the movie, it is because our faith is strong, not weak. But I do not expect you to understand that.
Comment by Vikki — November 5, 2007 @ 1:26 pm”
Sustain from worldly influence?… Then why are you posting your comment here. In fact…why are you even at this website anyway?
don’t support the movie.. don’t see it… anything that is outright secularist isn’t worth a chirstian persons time…
I received the emails from my mom – telling me not to see the movie. The
trailer looked very cool and enticing. Being a sci-fi buff, it really look liked
something I would have went to see – and maybe even my children. But what they
say about the movie prompting people to buy the book is accurate. So even if the
movie is watered down, the way I understand it, the book is not.
Someone commented earlier on, “I just don’t understand why Christians feel
so threatened when their children are encouraged to think!”
The serpent in the Garden of Eden tempted Eve with the same question.
I think I will stick to my beliefs and steer clear of this one.
kat
For those of you who keep stating that the books are fiction, go to the author’s website and educate yourself. He states the books are not fantasy, but “stark realism”. Also, the daemons that are attached to the children are pronounced, “demons”. Nice. Pullman clearly has an agenda and so should we. It is time to draw the line in the sand and choose which side to be on. He does not see the books as a “fun read” but a series to open the reader’s mind to a dark direction. Thankfully, word on the street is that the movie is a horrible mess; reviews will probably sink it faster than the Catholic league.
Why does people equates “atheism” with “anti-Christ”, “bad”, “Satan”, etc. I consider myself a Christian, and was raised Catholic (no longer, though). When someone is an atheist, that does not automatically make them the worst people…acceptance is the word here. I am seeing the same nonsense as with the Harry Potter series. Fundamentalists are trying to dictate what we should believe…I started to read these books, and have done some research on the author. Frankly, I think every zealot group criticizing the books and upcoming movie is twisting their interpretation for their own agenda. Pullman has The Chronicles of Narnia as suggested reading in his website!!! And, the books are giving the message: make your own decisions…have you people ever learned of the atrocities the early Catholic church committed in the name of God? Well, maybe is not as dramatic and gory, but history seems to be repeating itself all over again. Besides…is FICTION, people! If you don’t like it, don’t pay for the books or the movies, and let others enjoy..
well look, theres plenty of controversies here and an answer needs to be realized. Ive personally never read the book, but from myspace and other reviews on here and as well on wikipedia ive learned much of its ending and strategies. There is talk of the supporting side of the movie saying “its a free country”…but do you not understand. The foundation of this country was based on the belief of Christianity. And just as any structure in today’s society, a foundation is what holds us together. Washington said himself. If you not be a believer in Christ, may you not come upon this land. And also shall i indulge in words of God Himself. In Matthew 24:4 Jesus tells not just His disciples…but to everyone…to all of His people to “Take heed that no man decieve you.” So dont be fooled by this interpretation of a free world…for great things are given to you only from the will of the Lord..and i dont mean to preach to you things you probably are tired of hearing…if that be the case. But just think. Think about where you want to be when Christ does come back and everyone around you, maybe people you know, maybe people you dont, but they are just gone and maybe you know what happened maybe you dont…but your one of somewhat few left here. here with God’s back turned from you and no way back. Waiting on the time to come when you either choose to beg for forgiveness or fight God’s army yourself, just as what ive interpreted the movie implies. Then to lose, because the truth really is…good will always triumph over evil and the truth is Jesus is coming back, and perhaps it is when the movie comes out. Or that time when you decide to start reading the book. What if happens then….then what. Is it really worth it. Not to me…why would it be for anyone?
“Maybe we should go see the movie before we decide.” That is the most irresponsible, all-inclusive, politically and socially correct, I just waant to be my child’s friend response I have heard in a while. You are either not a parent, or don’t take your responsibility to your children seriously.
While Hollywood may have toned down the anti-God theme, and much of the accompanying themes and thoughts in order not to offend Christians and people of faith for the release of this pernicious crap at CHRISTMAS-TIME! – without a doubt Pullman’s books are encouraging children to kill a senile and non-loving God by taking on your own personal demon and wielding magic in the process.
Try reading the books yoiurself before you dismiss this concern!
we still have the responsibility to decide whether a book, a movie, a TV channel or program, a CD is appropriate for our children based upon their age, their maturity, their sex, and yes – also based upon the moral values we are instilling in them.
I admit it, I am instilling moral values in my children. I am not letting them raise themselves, which wouldn’t concern me so much. What concerns me is the rest of the people on the planet- because if I don’t step in and help to raise them – you will, and Pullman will, and the crazies that end up in our school systems will instill their own moral value system in them. Look how great we have been doing as a society letting society instill moral values into our children.
You should read the book (seeing as the book was released before the movie), before any one makes baseless assumptions.
I mean, are the Christian groups just concerned about what children see, or is it just that literture is becoming increasingly irrelevant?
I refuse to go and watch it when it comes because i will not support tham by giving them my money for going and watching it. And besides why do we have to go see something when we already know what we will find.
The author has already said his reason for writing the book is to incourage atheism to children so why enourage him on his route to doing that.
The fact that Christians believe in a god, virgin births, and coming back from the dead shows that they are unable to differentiate between reality and make-believe. Most have never even read the entire Bible, nevermind bothering to read anything else. People who oppose this movie should just stay home and watch the 700 Club and Fox News.
MAYBE IF ALL THESE CRYBABIES GOT FOCUSED ON THE REAL PROBLEMS IN THE WORLD THEY MIGHT MAKE A POSITIVE DIFFERENCE. UNTIL THEN… WHINE.. WHINE… WHINE… bITCH… BITCH…. BITCH….!
Pyrate 1700, you are funny! Truth is, whoever believes that it would be a preposterous heressy to go near a theater where this movie is shown, or would like to hold a book burning of these books, should just respect other’s opinions if they are so “Christian”. I just finished reading the first book. I still have to find where it says in there God does not exist. The Catholics may be mad because there are some mentions of things there that are nothing but historical facts: The Inquisition is one, for example. Also, the main character does say he did not put his daughter in a convent of nuns because he hated anything that had to to with that concept. Otherwise, I do not see anymore here than any other fantasy book. The Fundamentalists, of course, think any literature of the “World”, that is, not Christian, comes from Satan. So, not much we can argue there; they will always think that. They even think Barbie dolls are possessed by evil spirits. If that is what they want to believe, fine, but don’t try to “shove” it in my “mouth”, because I will not eat it!!!!!!!
I read the Chronicles of Narnia over and over when I was a kid, and never saw any Christian themes. Lewis didn’t make much of a church-goer out of me, but I sure enjoyed his books and I think I’m a better person for reading them. Lewis and Pullman are largely in agreement – stand up for what you believe in, don’t let the bad guys push you around, protect the weak, etc. – whether you believe in Jesus, Crom, the four winds, or Darwin.
“My books are about killing God.” – Philip Pullman, 2003 interview with The Sydney Morning Herald
Loco, did you read the whole interview? By the way, Loco means crazy in Spanish-no offense…
“Pullman has no qualms with critics who label his books sacrilegious, so how does he describe himself? “If we’re talking on the scale of human life and the things we see around us, I’m an atheist. There’s no God here. There never was. But if you go out into the vastness of space, well, I’m not so sure. On that level, I’m an agnostic.
“That’s not to say I disparage the religious impulse. I think the impulse is a critical part of the wonder and awe that human beings feel. What I am against is organised religion of the sort which persecutes people who don’t believe. I’m against religious intolerance.”
Why didn’t I get an e-mail warning me not to take my kids to that piece of trash Narnia film with its pro-Christian propoganda? My kids almost became Christians after watching that movie. And what about that disgusting gore-fest “Passion of the Christ”. How much of a blood thirst do the people who enjoyed that yacker have?
I guess only those who follow the immoral Christian religion should push their agenda in a film. Everyone else should just shut up before they are forced to open up a serious can of Crusade.
Can you smell that scent in the air? Its called hypocrisy.
Robert, even though I consider myself a Christian, I couldn’t agree more with the whole “Crusade” thing. Also, the hypocrisy part. Good for you! Someone is finally calling it as it is…all religion followers think they have the right to committ atrocities in the name of God…which God, I wonder?
i think the main problem here is nothing to do with anyone (sane) being particularly fundamentalist christian, athiest or otherwise it is more to do with the issue of what should be shown to impressionable people who are deemed by society, rightly so to not be able to make their own life decisions yet. sorry long sentance. in my opinion people who choose to boycott the film are slightly silly if they are only doing so for the reason that it contains anti religious or anti organised religion ideals but, each to their own. anyway the main point to this was to raise the issue that if, realisticly, children cannot be entirely protected from ideas of religion and athiesm, sexuality, morality and their own personal ‘beliefs’ then parents should at least strive to make sure the children are not taken by ‘either side’ of a ‘moral’ debate (‘religion’ vs ‘athiesm’ being a hot topic at the moment) before they are able to make such decisions themselves. this is not an issue such as horror films, pornography or foul language which parents can rightly decide on protecting their children from, it is very very differant: it contains two (at least) sides to the debate so instead of quibleing over whether to not let your children or see the film yourself i think rather you should be trying more to not indoctrinate your children, whichever viewpoint that might be. just for referance yes, i am an athiest and yes, my parents are too BUT crucially my parents did their best to not factor religion or athiesm or any other socio-moralistic debate to enter my lifre until i started to think about them by myself and make up my own mind. for instance i went to a christian school where we had to pray after lessons, go to church at least once a week and the propoganda so blatant that even as a pre 10 year old child i picked up on it. on the cross side i was encouraged to read all kinds of books, narnia and dark materials being but a few among the fiction and, when i reached about 13-14 i started thinking about these things and started reading up on creationism, evolution and even fundamental christianity and Islam. eventually i came to my OWN decision. please dont indoctrinate your children it makes for a misinformed and malfunctioning society. thanks. sorry it was so long i am known to rant.
i just wanted to point out that the bible tells us that christians shouldn’t bicker with christian….how will we ever be able to convince others of the Lords power and love if we cannot even love each other…wether or not you do or do not go see this movie….that is a choice between you and God…i’m not saying that it isn’t good to discuss things in order to come to a conclusion…because the bible also tells us that the Lord will reveal his will through not only his word and the holy spirit but also through people and our brothers and sisters in Christ…but remember the purpose of these discussions should be to make your own personal decisions…not to attack each other…not to harbor hate for our fellow Christians…i urge you not to argue…but to discuss…i myself am a young teen and decided to do some re-search on the movie…in reading your comments i found that things seemed to stray from the original point of discussing differnt views and started becoming argumentative….some people did make valid points that will aid me in my decision…i’m definatly going to pray about it…i just wanted to encourage you to make sure that before you post a comment your intentions are only to express your opinions in order to aid fellow christians in making their choice regarding the movie…not to attack or tear down others opinions…there are ways to disagree without becoming condecending…
i also wanted to apologize for not having the direct scripture of the claims that i made…i’m in school at the moment and i don’t have my bible on hand…its just things that i remember reading…
God Bless…
I don’t get the whole base of this arguement. Why do people feel the need to ram religion down their children’s throat? Now lets look at this film. One it is a film. Two it is fiction. Three no where in the book does it tell your children to not believe in something. The books were made to encouage people to think, something the church isn’t too fond of. Perhpas if you feel threatened that a movie will make you question your belief in God, then perhaps you should be questioning your position on religion.
Actually I have seen very good comments here, both pro and con this issue. I talked to my pastor about this. He even said he does not understand where the whole controversy comes from. He has read the books and while he understands the message is not the same as CS Lewis’s “Narnia”, he believes there are still the values of good winning over evil, and does not think it promotes anything of the sort the news have been spreading. I just say, let’s just respect one another, and don’t try to force our ideologies on others. If you don’t care for the books or movie, just don’t go see it or read it.
Andrew James Riemer — November 1, 2007 – I wish there were more people like you in the world. Why must people be afraid to be exposed to alternative options? Are we that weak to not be able to make our own concious choice of what to believe and follow? To learn is to grow. The only way we have continued to grow as a species is to have learned. That is the process of life. Traditions make a foundation but after that is is your destiny to explore what else is out there. Thank you for expressing a very intelligent and mature way to handle this movie situation.
I guess its okay for the religious groups to get finacial gain from their publications? There is a phamplet being offered for sale to educate against the beliefs of The Golden Compass, there was also a DVD available for $40 on decoding the DaVinci Code at one time. At least when I pay for a movie I go for enjoyment and not to be lectured about the evils of all that does not fit into our organized religious groups’ thinking(for us). If you are so concerned with the christian salvation of all the world would you not offer your educational material for free? Jesus did. I have read and re-read the triolgy and bought the DaVinci Code DVD. Not once did religion factor into it for me, and I’m Catholic. It is a work of fiction,-F-I-C-T-I-O-N- people, you know make believe. Imagination used to be pushed on childern, maybe thats why there’s not that many authors/artists anymore, their imaginations were squashed by narrow minded people. (I don’t care about the beliefs of the author. Poe was a herion addict, Hemingway was an alcholic, I own and read their books, but I don’t drink or do herion). But I guess its okay for kids to lay around playing violent video games instead of reading works of fiction. I plan on paying to see the movie and on buying the DVD as soon as its available. But then I’ve always have thought for myself and not had others sway my beliefs. If you are that concerned with your children being swayed by the supposive atheistic beliefs of the Golden Compass, you haven’t done a very good job have you? Maybe you should read the book(s). The book is always better than the movie.
Even better than going to see the movie, why no READ the books! They are not anti-religious and do not promote atheism. One of the central themes of the book is love in it’s purest most innocent form. PLEASE read the books before you pass judgment.
Isn’t it funny…?
Christians being afraid of a work of fiction…
I guess their particular work of fiction cannot abide by any other…:)
What a pathetic world we live in…sheep all of you. Run to your precious movie and buy your “right to freedom” book. I feel like the child in the Emperor’s clothes. He is an athiest, people, who is out to turn others to his way of thinking. Evil draped in pretty prose and pictures. He admits that in his interviews and his website, yet you all still blather about the book being fiction and our right to think. Yes, it is our right to think but in your thinking and actions are you moving towards God or away from Him? Choose your path, people, choose your path. Free will is a beautiful thing, isn’t it?
Pullman stated his goal was to “kill God in the mind of children”. Since i agree that all religion is nothing but pernicious nonsense, I applaud the effort.
If this movie were attacking allah, the makers would be piles of ash. I find it odd that people think christians reactions to this movie is so “extreme”. And also, the Chronicles of Narnia are not telling the atheists that their most honored figure is fake and should be killed.
What’s wrong with a movie like this? You didn’t hear a crowd of atheists protesting the film because it has a Christian theme. We should have more of these with less protest.
I have read the first two books of this trilogy, and it is a bunch of crap taking faith in God away from children reading these books. I’m going to see the movie though.
This is a tough dilemma for Christians, as made clear by the previous comments. On one hand, the Bible tells us to “purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit” and to “not set before my eyes any vile thing.” Clearly, this book isn’t rallying behind Christianity or religion, for that matter. And those Christians who claim that watching the movie or reading the book doesn’t have an adverse effect naively ignore the countless crimes and acts influenced in real life from books such as Stephen King’s “Rage” and movies such as “Natural Born Killers.” On the other hand, the apostle Paul urges us to “become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some,” in other words educating ourselves in all areas to be able to strengthen our faith and to build it in others. Watching this movie and reading the book would make us more knowledgeable about what enemies of God have to say and be able to use it to defeat them. I agree with jen that it’s time for Christians to draw a line in the sand and decide which side you are on. As the Bible says, you’re either for God or against Him. However, the best way to support His side is not so clear.
In an interview with Third Way, a Christian newspaper in United Kingdom, Pullman said of the third book in his trilogy: “Of course, I don’t say, ‘There is no God.’
“I say: ‘There is a God, and here he is dying’ – and this is what I was particularly pleased with, as a result of an act of charity. And he goes ‘with a sigh of the most profound and exhausted relief.’”
When his books were released in Australia in 2003, Pullman told The Sydney Morning Herald that his “books are about killing God.”
“I’m trying to undermine the basis of Christian belief,” said Pullman in an article by The Washington Post, adding that C.S. Lewis, the Christian author of Chronicles of Narnia, would describe his books as the “Devil’s work.”
There is a very serious point that is being missed. It’s not about someone trying to “turn our kids into atheists.” It’s about the fact that every group in this world has a right to be offended about something except for christians. They’re expected to “turn the other cheek.” When christians are offended all the secular’s pull the same tactics every time (such as seen in the comments on this site). Every time they make snide comments to bully the christians around until they eventually back down. It’s time to stop backing down, let people know that you are offended, and hit them in their pocket books, where it really hurts. Then people will begin to realize that perhaps there’s more of them out there than we thoght. Radio hosts have been fired for offending some groups. But everyone is allowed to offend christians with no repercutions. Why?
I am only 14 years old. It does not take anybody with some kind of “advanced” type of thinking to realize that this movie is anti-religious. Being a strong follower in Christ, i do not see a need in going to see a movie that will just fill my mind with garbage, especially if it is trying to persuade me into the atheistic lifestyle and belief. Even though Philip Pullman (author of The Golden Compass trilogy) claims that he would not write a book which portrays his beliefs, but yet makes a huge deal of the fact that he is an atheist.
And the comment that a man who previously sent a comment, about the hand over a flame…that is right on! Like i said before, someone does not need to have a skilled way of thinking to know that this movie is nothing but a sermon hidden between script lines.
To Jen: Free will is a beautiful thing, you got that right. Also, I don’t know if it was you (the comment was signed by Jen as well, but may be a different person), but someone wondered about how the movie makers got around the fact of Nicole Kidman’s character killing children in the book to experiment with their energy. If this person read the book, then got it all wrong. Children were being separated from their daemons-which by the way, is not the same as what we know in Christianity as “demons”-and the intention was to return the children to their daemons after being “purified” from Dust. Just to clarify…And to Wes, I am offended when my fellow Christians do not respect my right to worship and praise God a way I see fit, still according to His Word.
Sandra, if your not offended by the movie or the books then I wasn’t addressing you. However, I don’t see how you can be worshipping and praising God by reading the books or seeing the movie. I highly suspect your true intentions, however. I think if you were a worshipping and praising type of person you would know that the path is narrow, and Eph. 4:4-6 states,”There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling;
5. one Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6. one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.
So, you can worship and praise your way if you want, but the Bible calls to one faith.
define ‘god’. then we can talk about it.
um has anyone here actually read the books carefully, or is everone just basing their negative comments on all the crap that is circulating these books?
Wes, I think you missed the point of my response. I do not equate reading a book or a watching a movie with praising God, but by doing so, I do not see myself as an unfaithful person either. Joseph, I wonder the same as you…
I dont understand why people would take their kids to see this movie anyways. This is NOT a kids movie at all.
Chris, I agree. The movie is rated PG-13. I think the “fear” is that is may be marketed to children, because the star is 12 years old. Still, it is a little complex for younger children.
Reading the books are irrelevant. I have listed the authors very own and very public statements in comment #96 above. He says himself that he is “TRYING TO UNDERMINE CHRISTIANITY” and that in his books he is “PLEASED THAT GOD IS DEAD.” So to define God it is obvious that Pullman is refering to the God of the Bible. Go back and re-read comment #96 or look them up for yourself, but he is a publicly professed atheist, and has publicly stated his views about Chrisiantiy and his intentions in this book series. So, if you are a Christian why would you support this. And if you’re an atheist or secularist why would you deny what the author clearly is not. You can deny it, but it is foolish. If you’re not offended by the books then that is ok, but don’t belittle or tell people they have no right to be offended when the author is publicly stating that he is trying to offend Christians.
By the way don’t you find it ironic that Lyra’s daemon (demon) is named Pan (the greek god mostly associated with satan)?
I am an agnostic, not an atheist. I respect all religions and believe there is good in all religions, even atheism. However, I believe that humankind needs religion for morale guidance as long as that religion seeks to do only good and shows tolerance for all other beliefs. I feel people become atheists for the reason that they have been disappointed at some point in their life by others’ interpretations of their religion. They then become bitter and denounce God. It’s their choice, but many atheists find themselves praying when the end is near.
My roommate in college often argued with me about knowing there is a God not just believing in God. I’m still looking. I don’t know for sure, but I know evil when I see it. Both religious zealots and atheists do harm in their own way and thry to push their beliefs on others.
Those who criticize the Christians here defending their right to bring up their children in their own way are dead wrong. When society starts to raise the children, then there will be nothing but atheism. It’s already creeping into the schools along with the destruction of all patriotism or love of this country.
Those Christians here who feel that their way is the only way say so because it is a part of their faith. As long as it goes no further than that what is the harm? Most religions believe theirs is the only true religion. However, I think that Christians by nature of their religion which espouses peace and love and the fact that they are the majority in this country have become a target of secular progressives and that they ought to start protesting the constant attacks on their religion and its symbols. Don’t be a doormat Christians – defend your faith by not spending your money with the sponsors of those who are offensive to you. In this country money has become the almighty. So, kill the almight dollar they want for producing this tripe.
As someone else here said if it had been a story about killing Mohamed, or if they had named one of the bears Mohamed, then the author and the movie makers would be a pile of ashes or maybe they would have their throats cut, or they would be stoned to death. That folks is real religious intolerance, and it is coming to us all sooner than you think. The “new” religious zealots on the block will cut an athiest’s throat or an agnostic’s throat or a secular progressive’s throat as easily as they would cut a Christian’s or a Jew’s throat.
Wow, Wes! For someone who is clearly against this book and movie, you know quite a lot, and yet, not enough. “Pan” is short for a very long name, which I will not try to spell, since I don’t have the book near at the moment. I did my research: the “daemon” is a Latinized spelling to refer to spirits from mithology, and not the malevolent “demons” as known in Christianity…Just to clarify…
Very, very confusing…and I am not going to try to explain my point anymore, since not matter what I say, perception is reality. Just one thought: follow what Jesus taught: Love one another as He loves us. With that bottom line, there should not be any fear that a little movie will sway the beliefs of many…
I just got home from a sneak preview of the movie and to tell you the truth it isn’t that bad as far as “bashing” christines. Believe it or not out of 177 people in the theater there were only about 20 “kids” under 18. As for the movie trying to turn kids away from religon, they don’t need a movie to do that today. I think a lot of parents are doing that for the movie. I feel that religon starts at home and buikds out from there.
Daemons were important in Neo-Platonic philosophy. In Neoplatonism, a daemon was more like a demigod rather than an evil spirit, as Eros was described as in-between the gods and humankind. In the Christian reception of Platonism, the eudaemons were identified with the angels.
Cyprian was debunking the gods of the pagans as a euhemerist falsehood in his essay On the Vanity of Idols, but he had this to say of daemons:
“ They are impure and wandering spirits, who, after having been steeped in earthly vices, have departed from their celestial vigour by the contagion of earth, and do not cease, when ruined themselves, to seek the ruin of others; and when degraded themselves, to infuse into others the error of their own degradation. These demons the poets also acknowledge, and Socrates declared that he was instructed and ruled at the will of a demon; and thence the Magi have a power either for mischief or for mockery, of whom, however, the chief Hostanes both says that the form of the true God cannot be seen, and declares that true angels stand round about His throne.
These spirits, therefore, are lurking under the statues and consecrated images: these inspire the breasts of their prophets with their afflatus, animate the fibres of the entrails, direct the flights of birds, rule the lots, give efficiency to oracles, are always mixing up falsehood with truth, for they are both deceived and they deceive; they disturb their life, they disquiet their slumbers; their spirits creeping also into their bodies, secretly terrify their minds, distort their limbs, break their health, excite diseases to force them to worship of themselves, so that when glutted with the steam of the altars and the piles of cattle, they may unloose what they had bound, and so appear to have effected a cure. The only remedy from them is when their own mischief ceases.”
The daemons are real enough — “the principle is the same, which misleads and deceives, and with tricks which darken the truth, leads away a credulous and foolish rabble” — it is relying upon them that is deceptive. In this way the daemons passed easily into Christian “demons.”
And, though Pan is the shortened nickname for Lyra’s daemon, he is still refered to as Pan. Just as Pandora’s Box is not named Pan’s Box but is still one and the same. A rose by any other name is still a rose, just the same.
I do know a bit about the books because I checked them out from the library in order to educate myself about this subject and rebut those who are making very misguided excuses and irresponsible statements. There is an agenda behind what Pullman is doing here. You don’t have to believe me, ask Pullman yourself. He will flat out tell you (even though he sidestepped all the questions on the Today show). He has been very public about his intentions.
The debates about these books and this movie are not about Christians, but about unsuspecting, unfaithful individuals who do not know better. People think a fantasy movie like this does not have an effect on people, but look at the number of people who went searching for the grail after the Davinci Code was published and actually believe that Jesus was a married man and had children, it was phenomenal. Even though it was just fiction. Also, thousands of people actually tried to enroll their children into a school like Hogwarts. I know it sounds rediculous but people are out there who do in fact fall into this nonsense. You don’t have to believe me, but research the facts and see for yourself.
I’ve read a lot of these comments, and many of them pose great arguments. The problem isn’t about the movie, or whether children are going to suddenly become satanists as a result of these stories. It’s about the author’s intentions! It doesn’t matter whether he was a Christian tryin to cram his opinion down atheists’ throats, or vise-cersa. It’s about his statements he’s made in interviews that are fact, and scary.
Several people are right here, parents can talk to their children about the difference between reality and fiction, if they can’t figure it out for themselves. I was raised as a Christian, I just don’t subscribe to the religion anymore. However, I do believe in a lot of what the bible taught, Christ and God. I watched the Smurfs as a kid, low and behold despite what the Christian community had to say about that, I didn’t turn out to be an evil warlock out to sacrifice everything in my path. I’m sure most kids that are brought up in whatever-the-religion or not will stay true to the things they believe are true. We need to give them a little more credit. Most kids when you ask them, whether they’re religious or not, will say they believe in God or there is a “god” or “higher power” of some sort. We should encourage our children to respect others’ beliefs and religions, and to be open to learn and have knowledge of other beliefs. Without knowledge, there’s ignorance. And for anyone to force or cram an opinion down anyone’s throat is wrong!! Such is the case with this author. Someone here said that this subject isn’t up for debate. They’re right.
This forum was started about the author’s book teaching atheism to children. That is exactly what he is hoping to do, he’s stated it in many different ways. In fact he’s said he wants to kill the thought of God in kids minds! I don’t care if you’re religious or not, that’s SICK!!! What if he said, “I want to teach children that it’s ok to kill” or “I want to teach them that prostitution and drug dealing is ok.”? The fact that he has stated that he hopes to kill a belief in childrens minds, because he has a strong opinion against a large society that believes in something different that he does makes him a nutball. One last thing, if he starts marketing koolaid… definitely don’t let your children drink it.
Smurfs, Hogwarts, DaVinci Code, Holy Grail, Peter Pan (another “Pan”-wow, Disney must be evil too)…the list is endless. If some people were convinced of the going after the Holy Grail after the DaVinci Code came out, or wanted to play Quidditch, whatever it was, remember: it was their choice. They chose to pick one of those;maybe they were missing something in their lives. Maybe, if one of us here would have stopped to talk to them about what is to us the True God, instead of arguing, they would not have done that. But they did, and that was their choice. Were they foolish or maybe uneducated, living a dellusion? Perhaps…but they are still loved by God. Someone up here said that when parents teach their children right, no matter what come at them, they will be strong and stay with their beliefs. That is called faith. When faith is strong, books and movies made for entertainment will not deter that. As for Pullman, whatever it is in his “agenda”, he can try to push it as much as he wants, and still faith should prevail if it is real and strong. When the whole Harry Potter controversy exploded and people said JK Rowling wanted to teach witchcraft to children, my answer was, I will start to worry when I start to see kids flying brooms outthere…which will be “never” unless someone builds a flying device as such, so then it will powered with something other than magic powers. Free will, friends, free will…God gave us that, do not forget.
Sandra you’re just not getting it. I really don’t think you want to either. Please, go see the movie. See it ten times. But how can you and a handfull of others professing to be Christian go so deep against the grain of the whole of the rest of the Christian community.
Here is your last comment word for word.
If some people were convinced of the going after the Holy Grail after the DaVinci Code came out, or wanted to play Quidditch, whatever it was, remember: it was their choice. They chose to pick one of those;maybe they were missing something in their lives. Maybe, if one of us here would have stopped to talk to them about what is to us the True God, instead of arguing, they would not have done that. But they did, and that was their choice. Were they foolish or maybe uneducated, living a dellusion?
Refering to that in bold. Don’t you see, we are trying to talk to them. That’s why we’re here. Some of us are trying to educate, and others (such as yourself) are trying to argue and hinder the process. How are you helping them by wanting to march them into the lions den. We do have free will, to choose right from wrong. We are supposed to choose what is right. Why do you insist on choosing what is wrong and try to convince others to do the same. We are supposed to let our light shine so others will know us by our light. If we choose just as non-religious choose, how are we any different. Remember, even satan and all his followrs believe in God, but because of his choice he will never enter the throne room of heaven again and is doomed to spend eternity in the lake of fire. We live in this world but we are called to be apart from the evil in this world. You can not have it both ways.
Don’t you see. We are trying to help those poor misguided souls. So many are misguided because we are so divided amongst ourselves. Those who are misguided don’t want any part of what we have to offer because we can’t even stop arguing amongst ourselves. Because, we say we are supposed to be living one way, but actually live a hypocritic life. They may say, “Well these Christians say this is wrong, and those Christians are doing it. Really, what is a Christian? There really aren’t any true Christians. They don’t even know WHAT they believe. None of them agree on anything.”
I really don’t want to say this to you, but I feel at this point it needs to be said. Please, don’t speak for Christians if you’re not on board with the rest of us. We’re trying to help as you said we should, but your not helping us. I am not going to ever question your faith in God, that would not be the right thing to do, but I feel that at this point you are misguided.
I know that Sandra is not alone in her view on this. These comments have not been or have ever been directed solely at her, but all those who think as she does. I’ve said my peace. If my point has not hit home yet, then I feel that it won’t.
May God bless each and every one of us. And may your light shine to give light to the world.
How can someone here say they are trying to “shine their light”, and have a litany like the one right before this comment? Just let each one choose what they want to do, Christian or Pagan. Even among Christians there are different lines of thinking and different ways of worshipping and still they believe in God and His eternal love and forgiveness. Many of these factions, though, believe in “whipping” people into shape by dictating even the way they have to dress!!! I think Wes is the one who is not getting the point. I think no one here is trying to hinder anyones efforts. I think Sandra only said to let each one make their own choices. No one is forcing anyone to do or see what they don’t want.
Thanks, Samira. Wes, is not me or people like me hindering “your” efforts. I will tell you a story. Many years ago, I was walking through one of my city’s streets. It was my lunch time, and I was in a hurry. I noticed this mom and her little daughter. They were both dressed very modestly, in the manner a person who belongs to certain type of church will dress(nothing wrong with that; that is simply how they believe one should dress). Anyway, the little girl approached me and she had a handful of literature in her hand, and she asked,”If you died today, do you think you would go to Heaven?”. My automatic response was a big smile, and to say, “Absolutely, because Jesus came to this world and died so you and me could have eternal life”. I was not being a hipocrit, and I was not being “warm” trying to have it both ways. I spoke from what my belief was. And I am sure this girl and specially her mother were surprised. They did not expect a women dressed in a business suit would answer them like this, because this probably is not the image they had in their mind of a believer. Why I am saying this story here? This is not a story I retell often, but just to illustrate a point: We are quick to judge and have many misconceptions about what people believe and don’t believe. Truth is, only God knows what is in our hearts since before the beginning of the World. So, go on thinking that is me and the likes who are trying to “hinder” your work…God knows better.
i don’t think the comment above was a litany. actually very calm and to the point.
to bad this movie is gonna make millions lol i think you jesus freaks need something else to do then brain washing people
let them think for them self hay and you try the same
quite being a follower do it cuz you want to not because some one else told you to
Maybe people should see the movie in order to make up their own minds? THAT IS RETARDED! Why don’t parent’s rent pornography for the kids so that they can see the devistating effects it has?!!? Or, here is a novel idea, why don’t people do their research before hand so they can make an educated decission…
Just a thought.
So you think you can make a comparison between the effects of this movie and porn? I will not say that is retarded, because it is your opinion. But I will say it is a long shot…
Hi; its Bryan, the Buddhist guy. I think that this forum had degenerated into a debate between a very small group of people.
No matter what Mr. Pullman says about himself, the books as has been mentioned are a work of fiction. In the first lines of the movie, which I have seen, the female narrator states that this is a story about her world, one of many, not “our” world. Unless you believe in string “theory” from a scientific point of view, which postulates multiple versions of Earth, making this story a possible reality, then the whole thing is fictitious.
With a view from the middle of the road, I think it is time to stop trying to convert each other to your personal point of view and just accept what you believe as your own personal truth and no one elses. How many wars are we going to fight, in reality or on paper, over the subject of religion?
Enough already. Please. Christianity is only one spoke on the wheel of truth, as is every other spiritual belief. In the end, I believe that there is only one Prime Source and “It” is above any concern about petty human differences. That source is the Universe itself. Think about that.
This is ridiculous. Some Christians don’t like this series because it talks about something they don’t believe in and therefore they think Satan is corupting their minds or something foolish like that. These books are wonderful; I recommend them to everyone. I think that people who want to ban them seriously need to get a life. If you don’t have anything better to do then ban childrens books, then you really need to rethink your life. If you don’t want to read them, fine, but don’t make other children suffer by not being able to enjoy them. If you are going to try to ban these excellent books, you might actually consider reading them and making up your own mind first not just blindly doing whatever your church does. Actually, the only reason I read the books in the first place was because I saw that some overly cautious (to put it nicely) people wanted to ban it. THese books are amazing! Read them!
People who hate those books are so STUPID! I can’t believe that they don’t like books because they aren’t “Christian” enough. Well, news flash to those ignorant buttholes! I am sure that Hitler liked good Christian bools! if some books aren’t good enough for your high Christian standards, WRITE THE FRIGGIN THINGS YOURSELF! don’t be a retard, READ BANNED BOOKS
Ok, I started to come here for intelligent discussion. I like the books and intend to go see the movie. However, insulting those who do not agree with me lowers me down to the level of those here who want to act as if they are superior because of their beliefs. We all have the right to watch and read what we want, believe in what we want, and have our opinions respected, to “agree to disagree”. That is what many people have died for-yes, even if you do not agree with any war, current or past, still boys are dying to defend your right to freedom. Do not insult them as well. Let’s respect each other.
Great article by Christianity Today
“Fear Not the Compass”
http://www.christianitytoday.com/movies/commentaries/fearnotthecompass.html
Hi, ok for you people bashing the books. here is a blog entry explaining ten of the spiritual themes of the books. Also there is a catholic podcast called the secrets of harry potter for you who are bashing that or those books also. just google secrets of harry potter and it will come up and you can get it in mp3. my email is jkenn337[at sign, shift with the number two] gmail.com . shift with 2 makes the AT. I put AT in brackets. ok so here are the spiritual themes. And instead of bashing the books why not do what the author of the secrets of harry potter did? think, and try to see the good in everything. at one time satan himself was good, he was made good but he then chose to be bad. So why not try to see the good in everything and in everyone for a change. Spiritual Lessons from ‘The Golden Compass’
Text by Donna Freitas
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The upcoming release of “The Golden Compass,” based on the first book in Philip Pullman’s “His Dark Materials” trilogy, has been met with intense criticism
from many Christians who see these books as an overtly anti-Christian tale intended to “sell atheism to kids.” But in my view such accusations are a misunderstanding
of Pullman’s story.
In our book “Killing the Imposter God,” my co-author Jason King and I, theologians and Catholics ourselves, argue that “The Golden Compass” is a magnificent
epic, filled with spiritual themes, Christian virtues, and a glorious vision of God.
to read the top 10 spiritual lessons from Pullman’s “The Golden Compass.”
Donna Freitas is the co-author, with Jason King, of ”
.” She is one of Beliefnet’s
bloggers.
Pursue Truth Wherever It Takes You
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The heroine of “The Golden Compass” is a 12-year-old girl named Lyra who receives an alethiometer, the golden compass of the title, a beautiful and rare
truth-telling device. (In Greek
alethia
means truth.) Only Lyra has the gift to read it, but she struggles to interpret the often-cryptic truths it offers. By following the word of the alethiometer,
Lyra is heeding God’s call (with “Dust” being Pullman’s word for the divine).
Through the alethiometer Lyra talks to God, and she consults it at every turn in her journey–a journey that takes her to the northernmost regions of her
world. To read it she must enter a meditative state of a sort–and it is during this time that we can say that Lyra is in prayer. Pullman even describes
our heroine poring over the alethiometer “like a lover with a picture of the beloved.” How’s that for divine adoration?
Love Your Soul with All Your Heart
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In the world of “The Golden Compass,” all humans have daemons, animal-creatures that are part of a person yet exist outside the body. Lyra’s daemon is named
Pantalaimon (Pan for short) and they chatter, argue, and laugh like the best of friends. Pan can change form with lightning speed–at one moment a pole
cat, then a mouse, then a butterfly. Children’s daemons change until the reach puberty, at which point daemons “settle” into a form that represents something
significant about the person. The daemon is Pullman’s version of the soul.
Imagine if we could talk and question and laugh with our own souls? What would they say to us? What sort of personality would they have, what shape would
they take, and what would that tell us about our own deepest truths and desires? Lyra and Pan truly love each other with all their hearts. Would that we
all could know and love our own souls so passionately.
Knowledge Is Divine
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The concept of Dust is introduced in the very first moments of “The Golden Compass.” Dust is a mysterious substance that Lyra’s father, the scholar-explorer
Lord Asriel (played by Daniel Craig in the movie), has captured on camera during his latest exploration in the north. Dust gives the alethiometer its truth-telling
power and that it is the stuff of daemons, a kind of “soul-material.”
A word that reminds us of the dust from which humanity was created in the Book of Genesis, Dust is connected to knowledge and our ability to be conscious,
animated beings. Villains wish to wipe out Dust’s existence altogether–but Dust turns out to be Spirit, Wisdom, the divine. Dust (God) not only loves
us, but Dust wants us to know Dust more than anything else in the world. Our telos, our purpose, is to come to know Dust as intimately as possible. To
pursue Dust is to invite the Holy Spirit into our lives.
Someone Is Always Watching Out for You
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Our heroine Lyra may be an orphan of a sort–her father, Lord Asriel and her beautiful but cruel mother Mrs. Coulter (played by Nicole Kidman)–abandoned
her as a child.
But Lyra is never lonely. Whether it is her daemon-soul Pan, the kindly old scholars of Oxford’s Jordan college where Lyra spent her childhood, the seafaring,
courageous Ma Costa and Farder Coram–members of a people called gyptians, who take Lyra in when she is on the run–or Iorek Byrnison, the great armored
bear (voiced by Ian McKellen) who becomes Lyra’s champion and loyal companion, someone or something always turns up to shepherd Lyra along on her journey.
Through the alethiometer, Dust is there for Lyra too–God responds whenever she seeks.
The Devil Is Often (Wicked) Beautiful
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Everything about Lyra’s mother, Mrs. Coulter, is stunning: She is knockout gorgeous, her voice is like velvet, her charm irresistible, the fur of her golden
monkey daemon so beautiful children almost can’t help wanting to stroke him (even though it is taboo to touch another person’s daemon). She lives in an
impeccably kept home filled with luxuries.
Like other children, Lyra is immediately enamored of Mrs. Coulter, the woman she eventually learns is mother she the supposedly lost long ago. But Lyra
soon learns that beauty can be deceiving. What’s most important is who we are inside–inner beauty–and Mrs. Coulter is rotten (almost) to her core. She
is the devil dressed in mink.
Always Be a Good Samaritan
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When Lyra journeys north with the gyptians to find a group of children kidnapped by Mrs. Coulter for cruel experiments, Lyra rescues Tony Makarios. Tony
is a desperate, lost child who has been severed from his daemon at Bolvangar, Mrs. Coulter’s experimental compound. A human without a daemon is no longer
human in people’s eyes, grotesque even, and everyone around Tony is so repulsed and fearful that they can barely even look at him–except for Lyra. She
still sees Tony’s humanity. Lyra is the very definition of a Good Samaritan not just for rescuing Tony, but for saving him spiritually by recognizing his
inherent humanity.
Always Help Your True Friends When They Are in Need
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Friendship is a powerful theme throughout “His Dark Materials.” Lyra embarks on the journey that drives “The Golden Compass” on behalf of her young friend
Roger, the kitchen boy with whom she long enjoyed playing and exploring the nooks and crannies of their world’s Oxford. Roger is kidnapped by the Gobblers,
people led by Mrs. Coulter who steal little children for cruel experiments.
When Roger disappears, Lyra doesn’t simply despair, she determines to find him no matter what. For Lyra, the bonds of friendship are strong, and Pullman
is reminding us that we must do whatever we can to preserve the well-being of our beloved companions.
Defy Authority When It’s Corrupt
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Lyra is a willful child, and willfulness turns out to be her saving grace in “The Golden Compass.” Her defiant curiosity leads her to overhear her father,
Lord Asriel, first discussing Dust–a moment that changes her life forever. This same quality leads Lyra to run away from Mrs. Coulter, to challenge the
gyptians when they refuse (at first) to take Lyra north, and to travel with Iorek Byrnison, the armored bear, to find Tony Markarios.
Lyra does what she believes is right and true–she is not afraid to challenge authority when it is unjust. Lyra is a prophet of sorts: She often speaks
of things no one else wants to hear, but which are the most important, even life-changing tasks ahead.
Fight for the Good–and If You Must Fight, Do It Fiercely
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Daemons fight with each other, armored bears fight with each other in pursuit of what’s right, children fight for their lives when adults act cruelly toward
them, and gyptians fight on behalf of all children who are wronged.
In “The Golden Compass” Lyra heads into battle on behalf of her kidnapped friend Roger, and on behalf of all children threatened by Mrs. Coulter and her
henchmen, who want to sever children from their daemons. Lyra gathers as many friends as she can find to help her fight. All are willing to fight to the
death if they must. Pursuit of the good requires bravery, courage, and loyalty, no matter what the consequences.
Keep Your Soul as Close as You Can
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Like so many children in the world of “The Golden Compass,” Lyra and Pan–human and daemon–often play at seeing how far away they can move from each other
without anguish. Daemons (souls) are not literally “attached” to their humans, but there is an invisible bond so powerful that each time Pan and Lyra experience
distance, the hurt of separation sends them hurtling back into each other’s arms to hug and hold and comfort each other with nearness and love. Souls are
our most precious gifts, divine fonts of love and wisdom and playfulness. Never let them out of your sight or your awareness.
Go Olivia H!
Josh, I have enjoyed your entry inmensely. When I first saw it, I thought, who in the world did such a long entry? But I really enjoyed it…thank you!
Hi there. Came across this page after my father was telling me about how he received a letter from his church talking about the dangers of this book. He knew this was one of my favorite books so he wanted to let me know. I was raised a Christian as a child, but have since chosen to be agnostic, so I would like to be able to think that I can see both sides of the spectrum here. It was nothing that a book or movie could be responsible for (Quite the contrary as I actually began to question my faith because of all the conflict I saw within the church and the religion itself).
Someone above me wrote a comment about how the book was acknowledging a god and therefore not Atheist. Just to clarify this a bit, in the final book, *spoilers follow for those who care* it is said that the Authority is found to not actually be a god, in fact he was just the first being in creation. He then persuaded others after him, called angels if I remember right, that he was their god. Throughout the book it is hinted at what Lyra’s true purpose is. She must face a difficult decision in the end which causes her to loose her innocence. She is called Eve in the book, and it is through her and Will that a new world is born free of oppression.
I find it to be a beautifully written and thought provoking book dealing with the loss of innocence being the ultimate price of freedom. It certainly does make you think, but your thoughts can only be as dangerous as you make them. I would recommend it to anyone looking for a good read. I respect those of you willing to stand by your beliefs by not seeing this movie, but I do not think it right for those barring your children from seeing or reading something simply because it could make them question their faith. If they are to loose faith over something like this, I guarantee you it would not have lasted them till adulthood anyways. I wish I could have a response to more comments, but there are just far too many and I already feel like I am blathering on
This movie is just dumb and anti-god.
I mean COME ON, they KILL GOD. So think with your heart and follow the one true God.
Hi, here’s another tip. since homer’s epics the iliad and the odyssey are similar in some ways to these books, then if you wouldn’t let your children read homer’s epics, then they’re probably not old enough for these books and the movie. the movie says pg13, so respect the rating. and if I’m going to hell for reading these books and seeing the movie, oh well. at least I’ll go to hell knowing that before I went there, when i was alive, I read an excellent work of fantasy and fiction. Oh, I’m almost done the books and it didn’t turn me into an atheist. isn’t that amaizing? And when my son’s 12 or 13 or so old enough to read it, we’ll read it and enjoy it together and I doubt he’ll be an atheist. and my wife read harry potter and others that fundamentalists have been wining about, and she’s not an atheist.
I feel bad for the guy somewhere above who said he wanted to be the last one making a moment here. I guess it is not going to happen. Josh, I guess I will be right behind you when you go there…
Well i have to say, you all are really good at listening to each other.
i’m just reading all this and am wondering at how messed up i must be. I am a christian (catholic in fact), i go to church everyweek, pray every night, i am a youth group and confirmation facilitator, and i have a lot of faith in God and His work.
I also have read the entire His Dark Materials saga. And i like it. I read them first in elementry school and didn’t really understand it, and now that i have grown up (and have grown in Faith) i understand a deeper meaning to it.
It’s not about becoming athiest, and giving up on God, it is not going to far with the words of religion.
Religion is made up of faith and organization. Organization is the bible, vatican laws, and other such things. Faith is the blind step into the abyss.
The suicide bombers of 9/11, the phaorohs or Egypt, the Crusades, Greek and Roman control, all of them were caused by a huge gap between the people of Faith and the people of religious organization. The people that follow His Word, don’t need a book to tell them how to do it.
But that’s is my personal belief. If I can convince you (which i don’t think i can), it won’t be with my personal belief.
In the Amber Spyglass (the last book in the series, in case anyone hasn’t read it), the ‘God-killing’ scene is when Mrs. Coutler and Lord Asriel tackle the Metatron (bascially the fist of god) into a bottemless pit. It takes up 6 pages.
Throughout the 1-3 books, there are scenes of children and their souls being ripped apart, the church mercilessly chasing down an innocent girl, the church trading with slavers, and the church sending an assassin out to kill a 13 year old girl. That takes up 928 pages.
Now i’m not suggesting that you take your 6 year old daughter to see this movie and say, “Look this is what the church does,” you might create an athiest out of that. But an intelligent 13 year old, with any sort of theological knowledge, can analyze and understand it. And can question.
If you are afraid of children questioning, then you are a lost cause. Children need to question everything to learn and grow. My belief in God, would not be nearly as strong as it is today if i had merely accepted it.
I hope you might read this, but i hope more that you read the books themselves and get your own idea of them.
-eddie
P.S. whoever the @#%$ equated reading the books to smoking a pack of cigarettes is a fugging dum bass. You learn something when you read. Even if its that you think that the writer is an athiest. Never try to convince anyone not to read. You are a disgusting excuse of a human being.
What the Bloody Hell are they thinking trying to bann good chirldrens books!!!!
What the Bloody Hell are people with such freakingly sick minds trying to ban books for? God the only reason i want to read them is because they are banned!!! Will this sick society with Bush as our president please get a friggin life already, Stop killing people in other countries (breaking the 10 commandants:)), and for the love of god stop banning childrens books already. Oh and while your at it save the Earth 2. So that is my opinion and if you are a rebuplican who is against these books then Go to Hell
P.S. i am a christian and do believe in god. P.P.S. Peace out!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The movie comes out today…see you all at the movies!!!!!
Why the Bloody hell are people trying to bann childrens books. I mean honestly that just shows you what a freaking sick society we are.What the hell isn’t anti God these days. Well i’ll tell you something any freak who voted for Bush or thinks that this pointless war is good then screw you! War is breaking the 10 commandents. So what the freaking heck is wrong with this book. Any moron (in nice words) should get a f-ing life, don’t ban good childrens books, try electing someone for president who isn’t a freak, and stop the pointless wars, Oh and while your at it save the Earth we screwed up! Oh and if anyone was wondering I’m a christian and I go to church BUT I STAND UP FOR WHAT I BELIEVE IN. Christ this society is so twisted banning good books. I am only going to read the Golden Compass books because they are a trying to be banned! READ BANNED BOOKS!!!!!!!!!!
Good thing we have important things to get bent out of shape about like stupid, kiddie films while the economy is going down the toilet and there is no end in sight to the violence in Iraq.
First of all, JESUS people are judging a lot. If you don’t want to see the damned movie, don’t see the damned movie! I agree w/ Emery. Go see if or leave it alone. And, for those of you who are christians, have you ever considered what the notion of “Killing God” really means? It could mean an array of different things. I’m going to see this movie tonight so I’m not 100% educated, but I do know there is some church-like organization that is very dogmatic. Well, perhaps “killing God” refers to destroying the hatred that is often found in Christianity, and adopting the love for humanity and realizing that we do not decide people’s salvation! God does…For all we know, God just might have a place for the author of this book in Heaven. Who are you to know what God will do? That’s blasphemy, and that’s the kind of “God” that needs to be killed…I’m pretty sure Jesus said, “Love others as I have loved you”, and you guys aren’t loving…I’m not feeling the love.
Yeah, JESUS people. That’s a great way to refer to those ridiculous people who want to instill proper values into their kids. Man, why can’t they just expose their kids to all forms of disgusting anti-christian values like the rest of us “open-minded” parents. Cause that’s what life in American society is all about! That’s what we’re talking about when we refer to a Free Country…
Or, wait — maybe it’s because Jesus specifically said “Do not let yourself be deceived”, and that they might actually be taking their christian values to heart…. hmmm…
The following only refers to the parents who want what’s best for their kids … the rest of you don’t have to read it.
I applaud you on your decision NOT to see this grotesque excuse for a film. I pray your and your children’s moral values will be better off for not seeing the movie, and that your walks in Christ will continue to be meaningful.
‘Nuff said.
First, my comment was to ask fellow Christians to draw the line and stand for God versus this writer who clearly is against our Creater. Eddie, go to Pullman’s website and see where he honors your Catholic faith in his writings. He is clearly against the Magisterium, so how can you be Catholic and support this writer? I don’t believe in banning books, on the contrary publish them, read them, it is your choice. I believe in a free market. I am also not for the war or Bush. But I am for God and would hope that we as Christians would just show Hollywood that it is wrong to create “art” that is against the Creator. This is the first movie in a line of many books. The writers of the movie have purposely stated that they have “watered” down Pullman’s beliefs. Will they be watered down by the time the characters “kill” God? So, people, do you serve God or mammon? The lovely free will choice is yours…
I keep seeing the same thing here over and over and over again. Nothing new anymore. I am getting a little bored…bye, bye!!
People need to quit getting all worked up over these teenage kids on here spouting all their stupidity. I’ve only seen a couple of responses on here that actually sound like an educated adult wrote them. Kids quit passing yourselves off as adults, you sound stupid.
Oh, and all you people who keep claiming to be christian but doing everything you can to convince people to see the movie, are lying hypocrites. Wolves in sheeps clothing.
The movie won’t turn anyone into a God hater, but God haters sure are pushing this movie and crying that it don’t show enough God hate. I don’t care one way or the other if anyone see’s the movie. But man there sure are a lot of cry babies who like to resort to name calling. Some of you need to find better things to do than spend all your time posting comments here. Go outside once and a while.
By the way, the author of this original article is an idiot.
And finally Sandra and Samira are the same person. Sa”nd”ra vs. Sa”mi”ra. There comments are usually posted within minutes of each other. You’re not fooling anyone atheist.
Cmos, you can believe whatever you want…you think I am same as Samira, and atheist and a wolf in sheep clothes…wow! very judgmental for being a Christian…I tell you, is your opinion…I could say you sound like other people in here, but I don’t. I could say you are a hypocrit like all the priests and preachers that fall of grace because of sexual abuse and misconduct, but I don’t. Go ahead and keep thinking as you wish. Truth, I don’t care……I still will go see the movie, and finish reading the trilogy, and anyone can do as they please. My purpose here is to express my opinion, not to force anyone to do as I do, unlike you…
WE S=CMO S…THEY ARE THE SAME PERSON!!!!!!!!!
WHAT????? Alex, you’re a friggin wacko!
I just checked back to see if anyone who watched the movie left any comments about what they saw.
By the way wes is an idiot to for trying to convince people of things they can’t ever be convinced of. And I never said to anyone that I was christian. If you noticed I had somethin to say about them too.
Hey, you can bash me all you want now, cause I a aint wastin my time comin back here. The internet is so much more interesting than this place. No decent conversation here anyway.
Gee. Most Christians obviously must have dimwitted, ignorant, gullible children.
To think a book and movie packed with polar bears & magical creatures & action around every cornor filled with mystery & suspense.. to think ALL OF THAT would lead to developing in YOUR PATHETIC CHILDREN’S MINDS the idea that God can be killed…
Brilliant little bastards now arn’t they?
Since I know that the children I will be seeing in the theatre will be thinking to themselves, “I wish I had a pet ferret. Polar bear. Talking animal.” & “Ahhh! WHAT’S GONNA HAPPEN NEXT!”
No offence Christians of today’s America…but I highly doubt your children are smart enough to tie two & two together.
& p.s.
Harry Potter–loved it.
Pan’s Labyrinth–ADORED IT COMPLETLY!
The DeVinci Code–Watched it because of the protests & needless to say didn’t change a thought in my mind.
& Narnia–Eh, it was up there.
P.P.S. I don’t believe in God & think it’s ridiculous that you fight over something that WON’T change a thing.
Like this movie will be the straw that broke the horse’s back & cause our media to start killing off & abusing God’s name.
If this movie is a lead to corruption in today’s religious society, well, then apparently your faith isn’t as strong as ya’ll have protrayed it.
Honestly Christans of America, I never hated you more for being such a stop to freedom & creativity.
“God” should punish you for such a closeminded attitude…
nobody ever said this movie would turn our kids atheist.
i don’t think anyone is afraid of that. not a single christian.
what people are saying, if you listen, is that this book was intended to promote atheism (turning atheist and promoting is 2 different things) and mock the church.
so some of us are saying if mocking your church and promoting atheism offends you don’t see the movie.
would you want to associate yourself with someone who called your mother a whore? probably not (and i’m not saying anywhere in the book or the movie does anyone call the church a whore).
and no one has banned this book.
Catherine writes,”I just don’t understand why Christians feel so threatened when their children are encouraged to think!” Probably because as a Christian we believe, if you don’t believe in God you burn in Hell and it hurts for eternity. Do you let your children watch Adult Entertainment Movies (porn), I don’t because I don’t want my children to “think about that”. One question “Why does an Atheist write a series about killing God, I thought they didn’t believe in him?”
(Sigh!) Another person equating watching this movie with watching porn…don’t you think is like comparing a green pepper to a grapefruit? A little bit of a stretch there…whatever!
(Sigh!) and another person who missed the point. As a parent to want to protect your children from watching things that you believe they shouldn’t watch. Porn is an example just as movies with mass murder or drug abuse. If this was a movie like these this discusson would not take place. Since this is a theory of God, believers and non-believers want to debate about his/her (don’t want to start that arguemnt) existance. Everyone has their own beliefs and if people do not want to exposed their children the the idea of “killing god” then that is their right, same as people who do. The arguement of religion can be debated forever, but what I have noticed in recent years that for the people who do believe, they are view as “ignorant” more or less. I ask “What is wrong with believing in God these days?”. There are no definite answers but as a believer, I don’t think God would be pleased in the a movie about killing him/her and there are plenty of other movies out there for children to think about. If you don’t believe in the same way, well that’s your choice. Sorry for any miss spelling or grammer errors, didn’t have time to proof read.
Guess we can close this thread…the movie looks like it is destined for the $5.99 DVD bin.
http://www.reuters.com/article/entertainmentNews/idUSN0835936220071208?feedType=RSS&feedName=entertainmentNews&rpc=22&sp=true
Most movies end up there anyway…and you were all fussing so much about it!!!
hollywoods attack on God? are you seriouse?! how about our nations attack on those who choose to NOT belive in god? get over yourselves people. Religious people are not the only ones in this country and also how many atheists do you see boycotting films, books, or other things that have God in them? You’re all just so high and mighty that you belive that the whole world has to make sure they dont offend you. GET OVER IT. FREEDOM OF SPEECH. FREEDOM OF RELIGION.
I am proud of the person who wrote this book only because they were not afraid to publish a book including their beliefs, knowing that the public who would be recieving it is a bunch of religious folks who would do nothing but criticize and complain.
Dear Jen,
If you called my mother a whore I would be very angry with you but if you called her a racist it would be fine! I have read Northern Lights the first book and it was a good story and fun. I did not feel threatened by it that my faith would wither nor do I think this has any real danger to God as it is still His work. If someone wants to destroy something it must be there! There are many other things that are undermining the Word of God like race mixing and homosexuality. Would you also boycott films with elements of these types of behaviors in them?
Gerhard thats not the point. The whole idea is protection.
In a young child’s mind, the idea of faith is one that is tough to undersand. I don’t think i would allow my kids to see this movie, unless they already had faith. It doesn’t make sense to encurage the questioning of something when they aren’t even sure of it in the first place.
I know it sounds kinda warped, but questioning things is a way to deeper understand it, and to become closer to it. By questioning a relationship with god, you get closer to got.
-eddie
P.S. Don’t try to use the argue the ‘if someone wants to destroy something it must be there’ thing. That is just annoying. That counter productive, it’s like saying i can’t prove it, so i’m just gonna use stuff that we both have already said as a point. Its not effective.
Actually, David Emery is right. You might try seeing the movie before you judge it. I just saw it tonight; it does not have an anti-religious theme. That has been totally watered down to an anti-tyrannical institution theme. The Magisterium isn’t even clearly the Church…if anything it seems like a government. The heroine is out to save her friend from a horrible group of people harming children. She helps bring down a usurper, restoring a King to his throne. She is surrounded by loyal and courageous people. What’s not to approve in that?
Also, I’d like to remind Gerhard that although you are entitled to your opinion, racist is a negative description (because hate is a negative emotion). I think it is best to leave the judging to God and to be as well informed as you can manage, Jen, why would God be offended? Also, I think comparing being well informed about the books and movie to putting your hand over an open flame is an absolutely ridiculous analogy.
If you want an educated opinion but do not wish to contribute any financial support to the people who made this movie or to the author, then I have found a solution, YOUR LOCAL LIBRARY.
I find it funny that Xtian (because you are nothing like Christ) families are worried about seeing a movie, but actually encourage people to read the trash called the Bible. Here are just a few verses that would make SAW I, II, III, IV, Hostel I & II, Cabin Fever, etc look like children’s movies. The people who won’t let their kids see this movie are the same people who tell children they are going to HELL if they don’t believe in Jesus.
Judges 21: 10-24 – God orders the Israelites to “completely destroy all the males and every woman who is not a virgin” The 400 virgins that were not killed were forced to live life as the Israelites “wives” and were probably raped repeatedly the rest of their lives. Considering the Israelites were their enemy being their “wives” was a punishment far worse than a quick death. But then we find that 400 virgins were not enough so the Israelites go and just out and out kidnap more virgins to rape… way to go GOD!!!!
Numbers 31: 7-18 – Again the almighty GOD orders the murder of men, women, and children… well accept virgins… of course he wants them raped for the rest of their lives. “Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.”
Deuteronomy 20: 10-14 – more murder, and rape but now God demands the Israelites take some of them as slaves. WOW this book really teaches good morals.
Deuteronomy 22: 28-29 – “If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.” WOW… so according to God if I rape a virgin.. I get to keep her… COOL maybe I do want to be a Christian.(in case you are ignorant I’m being sarcastic)
Judges 5: 30 – “They must be dividing the spoils they took: there must be a damsel or two for each man, Spoils of dyed cloth as Sisera’s spoil, an ornate shawl or two for me in the spoil.” More rape. Noticing a pattern?
Exodus 21: 7-11 – “When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again.” WOW… you can sell your daughters into sexual slavery… man bring back the good old days… (sarcasm people if you can’t tell)
These are not even 1% of the people God murders or the types of people God wants murdered. I will also just include verses. Exodus 21:15, Leviticus 20:9, Leviticus 20:10, Leviticus 21:9, Exodus 22:19, 2 Chronicles 15:12-13, Deuteronomy 13:13-19, 2 Samuel 6:3-7, Ezekiel 9:5-7, Exodus 12:29-30, 1 Samuel 15:2-3, 1 Kings 14:9-16,
Deuteronomy 22: 20-21 – God orders the death of all women who are not virgins on their wedding night. WOW most Xtians today would be gone the day they tie the knot. LOL
Exodus 31: 12-15 – God orders death to people who work on the sabbath, again most Xtians would be dead after one month in todays world.
2 Kings 2:23-24 – “From there Elisha went up to Bethel. While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him. “Go up baldhead,” they shouted, “go up baldhead!” The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces.” OMG why does God kill these little brats? They are annoying but come on…
1 Kings 20:35-36 – ” Meanwhile, the LORD instructed one of the group of prophets to say to another man, “Strike me!” But the man refused to strike the prophet. Then the prophet told him, “Because you have not obeyed the voice of the LORD, a lion will kill you as soon as you leave me.” And sure enough, when he had gone, a lion attacked and killed him” This is just dumb.
Isaiah 14:21 – kill the sons of people who did bad things?
Hosea 9:11-16 – God says he will kill children!! I thought God hated abortion? Dang this guy confuses me.
Jeremiah 51:20-26 – “You are my battle-ax and sword,” says the LORD. “With you I will shatter nations and destroy many kingdoms. With you I will shatter armies, destroying the horse and rider, the chariot and charioteer. With you I will shatter men and women, old people and children, young men and maidens. With you I will shatter shepherds and flocks, farmers and oxen, captains and rulers.”
Leviticus 26:21-22 – If even then you remain hostile toward me and refuse to obey, I will inflict you with seven more disasters for your sins. I will release wild animals that will kill your children and destroy your cattle, so your numbers will dwindle and your roads will be deserted.”
Isaiah 13:15-18 – “Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes.” Man Israelites had a wicked temper… and they can’t get enough rape and baby killing…
Jeremiah 48:10 – “Cursed be he who does the Lords work remissly, cursed he who holds back his sword from blood.” Gods lust for blood never ends.
Joshua 6:20-21 – Jericho “They completely destroyed everything in it – men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep, donkeys – everything.”
Hosea 13:16 – “The people of Samaria must bear the consequences of their guilt because they rebelled against their God. They will be killed by an invading army, their little ones dashed to death against the ground, their pregnant women ripped open by swords.” I dunno what these babies said to God before he “placed them in the womb” but it must have been pretty awful.
This list could go on and on and on and on…and I haven’t even included the many sexual acts and such talked about in the Bible.
Christians have bigger problems to worry about considering that they can’t even agree on doctrine. They still have to prove who wrote the Gospels, and most of the old testament.
So now lets examine the New Testament! Here the fun really begins. Most Christians when presented the verses mentioned above will shriek and say “WELL THATS THE OLD TESTAMENT SO IT DOESN’T COUNT!!!!” Which is absurd but lets continue. The God of the OT killed babies, women, children, men, and animals. He allowed for the rape of women and slavery. Here is a question for Xtians… Would you hire a reformed Baby killing rapist as a nanny? Hell no, it wouldn’t matter what he said or how much he claimed to be reformed you would not hire him as a nanny. So why worship a God who did all these things? Why even give them a chance? It makes no sense. Oh well after Jesus God didn’t have to do that anymore… then I ask you what about all the millions of people going to hell or all the people in the end times who die by the hand of God?
Mark 11 & Matthew 21 – In the Gospel of Mark Jesus is hungry and wants to eat figs and sees a fig tree but when he gets up to it there is no figs.. DUH Jesus its not the season for figs, says the Author of Mark… I mean wouldn’t the Son of God know what season figs grow? If this wasn’t bad enough, Jesus gets pissed and kills the tree. Most people would consider anger for the sake of anger a sin.
Matthew 5:29 – “And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.” If Xtians did this there would be 2 billion blind people with amputated limbs.
speaking of amputated limbs check out
http://www.whywontgodhealamputees.com
Matthew 10:14-15 – And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment, than for that city.
Matthew 10:21 – And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.
Mark 4:11-12 – Jesus tries to confuse people on purpose so they won’t go to heaven.
Luke 16:19-31 – Jesus tells us a parable about a rich man who wouldn’t sell all his possessions and therefore he went to hell. I wonder why Xtians don’t follow tis verse?
Acts 5:1-10 – God kills people for not giving all their money over from selling their land. Again why do Xtians choose to forget these warnings about possessions and money.
Acts 13:22 – Even after all the stupid things King David did, Jesus tells us he is “a man after his own heart”
1 Corinthians 10:8 – Christ will kill you with snakes if you tempt him. Does this make any sense… how can YOU tempt Christ?
Ephesians 1:4-11 – God predestined us to either go to heaven or hell… what about free will? Even worse whats up with creating people just to send them to hell?
2 Thessalonian 2:11-12 – God makes people believe delusions (lol, much like Xtians) so he can send them to HELL!
What the Bible says about women?
1 Corinthians 11:8-9 – “For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.”
1 Corinthians 14:34-35 – “Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded] to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.”
1 Peter 3:1 – “Likewise, ye wives, [be] in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives”
Ephesians 5:22-23 – “Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.”
1 Timothy 2:11-14 –
“Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.”
I say lets ban the Bible for being more cruel and violent than any movie Hollywood has produced. It teaches people to kill those that don’t believer the same thing as yourself, it teaches you to hate those that are different than you, it teaches that slavery is ok, it teaches that women are property and are inferior to men, it teaches that rape is good, it teaches that abortion is ok as long as its in Gods name, it teaches that incest is ok. All this and I didn’t even include all the passages where God kills non believers in the NT, most Xtians rationalize this by saying “They didn’t accept Christ so its their own fault they are rotting in HELL” This is Bullshit, I will go to hell because I doubted a book, much of whose authorship is very, very ambiguous. Whose history is ambiguous. Why didn’t Jesus write his own book? That wouldn’t have changed the need for faith. Why isn’t their concrete proof of Jesus’ existence? This still wouldn’t change the need for faith. Why doesn’t God reveal the authors of the Gospels? Wouldn’t change the need for faith, but it would ad validity to the Bible. Why does prayer have such a bad track record. Why doesn’t God perform miracles on people with amputated limbs. Why does Jesus’ life parallel the lives of mythical figures such as the Zoroastrian Saoshant, Horus, Dionysus, Mithra, Krishna, Attis, just to name a few. I challenge you to look up the Zodiac, Jesus, and the Crux constellation. You will find out that the story of Jesus is merely an anthropomorphic story of the stars.
So lets make a movie about the Bible, it would have to be rated X because of the sex alone in the Song of Solomon, but even if you left that out the depictions of brutal violence would deter many from even watching beyond Genesis.
I agree with Jen whole heartedly. Also, just to point out, a lot of times acually going to see the movie will do no good because a lot of things are usually hidden and unless you are educated and know what you are looking at it means nothing. Sort of like how polititians cloak their true intentions in anything that they think the public wants to see and/or hear.
Hey, here’s an idea, why don’t you look up the actual interview that has the author STATING his true intentions! Oh, wait, that entails work. Ha ha ha! Silly me!
IF YOU’RE SO STRONG IN YOU’RE BELEIFS…. WHY ARE YOU SO SCARED TO SEE A FREAKING CHILDREN’S MOVIE……
PLEASE COMPLAIN MORE ABOUT HOW CHRISTIANITY IS BARELY DENOUNCED CONSIDERING IT IS THE ONLY RELIGION IN THE WHOLE WORLD, AND EVERYONE SHOULD TOTALLY REVOLVE AROUND IT.
you want to talk about corrupting your children? tell them to read about how thousands of women were killed because suspected “witchcraft”… and if they really want to read in close about it, they can read the Malleus Maleficarum, a book that INSTRUCTED clergy members on how to convict, torture and kill women. im not denying God’s existance, i’m just saying that organized religion is a bunch of bullshit. Do you not have the ability to think on your own? Or do you have to rely on everyone else to tell you what to beleive… Unless God came to you himself and said “Be a Christian”- seriously, walk out of your little confined bubbles and stop being so close minded
Hey Molly – it is not that we Christians are “scared to see this freaking movie” as you worded it above, it is that we do not wish to support ANYTHING OR ANY movie that so strongly contradicts our beliefs.
You say organized religion is bullshit and you know what – maybe alot of it is. I am a believer in God. I love Jesus and I believe in his word and teachings. However, I do not attend church and I can clearly see where alot of religions and churches have gone wrong. Not all of them, some of them have done much good. But guess what, they were all created by men – so don’t be pointing the finger at God. Man created churches and the different religions.
Why don’t YOU step out of your confined little bubble and stop being so closed minded and judgemental and PRAY and develop your own relationship with God. Then, maybe you’ll realize that supporting such a DARK agenda (as in the movie the Golden Compass), is just not something you morally choose to do.
Hopefully, since I started this thread, I can finish it:
Merry Christmas and God Bless Us Everyone!
How could I resist…
Hey, to the person who wrote all those bible verses. I don’t really have time to point out all your errors. But I will say that you’re taking each verse literally and that’s your first mistake. And if you want information on the authors of the bible and such, go to http://www.ewtn.com and also http://www.catholic.com and http://www.catholicanswers.com and http://www.sqpn.com and look at that website that should answer most questions. As for witch burnings in the 15th and 16th centuries? Unfortunately organized religion is made up of people and people make mistakes and do stupid things. So as long as there are people involved in organized religion organized religion itself will be flawed and will make mistakes.
Again, someone dreamed of being the last one, and it could not be…hahahahaha!
for all the parents reading listen up. im a kid. i saw this movie despite what my dad said and i loved it. my family is strong believers and have taught me alot about religion. they taught me well. but i have decided on my own that there is no god. THERE IS NO GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! why can i never tell my parents this without them hating me? dont we live in america where we believe we have the freedom of speech? doesnt that include the freedom of thinking for ourselves? as a kid, it is very frustrating to not be allowed to think for myself. we shouldnt be racist or sexist. then why is it ok to criticize people’s beliefs. no matter what my parents say i will never believe in god. thats just who i am and what i think. i am very accepting of those who do believe, but why cant people be accepting to those who dont? parents, your kids are questioning their faith. and no matter how much you make them go to church, pray, or go to a catholic school, some of your kids will become atheist or already are. be open with thier beliefs. dont criticize them. allow them to see the movie. we are bombarded with religious things al the time, cant we see the other side? all parents, please, this will help you become a better parent… be open with your kids ideas and let them think for themselves. dont punish them for going against what everyone else thinks and does. that takes great courage.
to quote Bryan Stone-Daly (emphasis is mine):
“To me, it is more important that the spiritual lessons from the books not be lost in the discussion that those who have already passed judgement on are having here. Even from an atheist, there is a wonderful parable that was written in the books about destroying false gods in order to find what is real. If there truly is a God, he belongs to no one, but to everyone, no matter what religious beliefs you have. The books focus on spiritual themes, not specifically religious ones. Where Philip Pullman lives in England, the Catholic church is dominant, so that is why it plays a dominant role in is story.”
“With a view from the middle of the road, I think it is time to stop trying to convert each other to your personal point of view and just accept what you believe as your own personal truth and no one elses. How many wars are we going to fight, in reality or on paper, over the subject of religion?”
“Enough already. Please. Christianity is only one spoke on the wheel of truth, as is every other spiritual belief. In the end, I believe that there is only one Prime Source and “It” is above any concern about petty human differences. That source is the Universe itself. Think about that.”
Bryan, you rock! I totally agree with you. It’s refreshing to hear insight such as yours in a world with so much hostility…
ok, i am muslim and i have read the first book, the i started the second but it started talking about killing god and all, i dont know whether it is okay to finish reading it, its not that im afraid that i will think differently, no my path is already cemented, i am just disgusted and am wondering if it is like supporting the books if i read them and actually like them
I don’t know what the Golden Compass was supposed to do but, it did almost put me to sleep! If this is geared to turn children to atheist parents have no fear, they will be bored to sleep before it’s over. I sat on the edge of my seat waiting for something grand to happen and it didn’t. My daughter said to me, “mommy that movie was so boring, we could’ve stayed at home for that”. The other children in the theater were running around, laughing, some were even crying begging to leave. So parents have no fear. This did not even compare to “Chronicles of Narnia”
Its all in the choice of a parent. We don’t let kids vote because they are too young to understand politics, but we force our religion upon them with essentially no choice. Plus, there are enough movies with pro-religious themes in theaters, that its only fair.
MERRY CHRISTMAS, EVERYONE…or should I say the “pc” thing? HAPPY HOLIDAYS!!!!!!!!!!!
Ok well non of this was at all helpful. I agree with many people that it is fiction and our children should know fact from fiction. I as a parent also understand that parents want to protect their children at such a critical age. I am a little confused why one person called Jesus god because Jeasus is the son of god but that is entirely off subject. Most of these comments are based on personal belief and not on the actual books or movies. Thats fine. But if everyone that claim to be christian would stop verbally bashing other’s they would remember that “Thall shall not judge!”. Honestly if all of us were close minded and not subjected to anything..I think we’d be back in the witch burning days. Where everyone who questioned anything or did something differently were burned. And we wonder why there are people who do not believe in god or don’t want to. Would you want to believe in someone or something who’s followers wanted to scorn you or kill you for being different? I personally am a Christian and I believe that Jesus Christ is my savior, but I do not believe he would want me to judge someone else. Those who judge are worthy of hellfire. Do as you please, see it or not (or read it)..but leave those alone who choose their own path in life.
People making a big commotion over the religious theme of this movie is a very silly thing indeed.
We all live in a very silly world.
I didn’t read thru all comments, and I do believe some can make mountains out of mole hills. I am a Christian woman and I am not afraid of fantasy books, nor am I afraid of people who write, promote and produce such material. However I do believe in God (obviously) and to believe in Him means I believe in the devil. I do not have to touch fire to know it will burn me and I don’t leave my doors unlocked when I go to sleep because I want to feel safe and protect my family. If you knew an enemy was outside waiting until your guard was down to come into your home to rob kill and destroy you and your family, would you leave your doors unlocked? Would you leave your children’s doors/windows unlocked? Of course not! The truth is whether you believe in God or not, God is real. As Strobble states; it takes more faith to NOT believe in God than it does to believe. God is real and so is the devil and he’s counting on all the people who discount the fact that he and all his evil minions are very much real and waiting for the open door. If you choose to believe that a book or film or music, etc. is not an “open door” that’s your choice. and to believers who tell yourselves I want to be able to talk about this and know what I’m saying, don’t fool yourself and don’t think you’re smarter than an enemy that’s been watching, waiting & working against mankind since the beginning of time (or close enough). As far as I’m concerned, better safe than sorry. What I don’t know (Really) won’t kill or hurt me and I’m not taking any chances with my mind or my children’s. We are suppose to protect them, aren’t we? Just one more opinion.
Bridget,
I had to respond to you statement about God. I can understand that you might like to disagree with your parents, but before you do, you should investigate what they say.
For example, there is a documentary out on the Shroud of Turin, which you likely know is that cloth that Jesus was wrapped after he was crucified and entombed.
In this film, an entire host of scientists examined the shroud and this is what they discovered…apparently, there was a huge shot of atomic or greater level energy that came out of the shroud and they can date it back to Biblical times. They had no explanation for this and in fact said it wouldn’t be possible to duplicate today, let alone do it back then….unless of course, it was the hand of God, leaving his signature and proof for all us scientific questioners of God that Jesus was in fact his son and resurrected.
Before you denounce and reject God, and I suspect it may be your parents and they way they practice Christianity, for your own sake and your own soul, look deeper into this.
A true Christian treats others as they would like to be treated. They don’t judge or speak to others with disrespect, even a “kid” like you, God wants you to be treated with love and respect and without judgement. You’re parents are trying…try to treat them the way you would like to be treated, with kindness and caring and understanding that they are doing their best.
God Bless you Bridget and I pray you will find your way to God and Jesus.
Sarah
I’m 11, going on 12 in a few months. I didn’t need to even read up to the 3rd chapter of the Golden Compass before I knew that this was anti-christian.
Now, I don’t have a religion, though I am being encouraged to believe in Buddhism. I don’t understand why children just are not allowed to enjoy the trilogy and movie(s). It is just a movie, or book, and I’m sure it won’t do MUCH harm to let children explore peoples opinions and respect that, yes, others may or may not think differently to them. Let your children have a LOOK at the different religions, because you know what, I think lots of kids, though not all, want to choose what they want to be, though of course you can encourage.
Right now, you might be thinking, typing, or saying out loud “You don’t believe in God, what do you know?” or “You have your own choice, and we have ours, alright?” Yeah, I kind of know that, and I am merely expressing MY OPINION to the world.
(Now I am going to ask a question, and any scientist here may answer for me. I AM NOT TRYING TO BE ANTI-CHRISTIAN, IT JUST CAME TO ME ONE NIGHT) Um… How did we come to live? If Adam and Eve gave birth to those children and continued those gemerations, that wouldn’t be right would it? Because Sister and brother relationships can result in in some problem with the genes or DNA, since it is too similar. (Sorry if I got this wrong, didn’t pay enough attention to my Biology teacher) Would someone kindly answer this question, as I’ve been burning to know.
All I can say is that I will not buy the movie because I’m not going to support an idiot.
I am Christian myself. I have travelled the World and seen many other religions in action. This is a prime example of why relgions are the cause of so many conflicts in this World. If the movie “Passion of the Christ” was banned or questioned by those of the Muslim faith in the middle east and other areas it would be the so called Christians on here pounding their chests downplaying the importance of a Muslim belief. Each person has a right to watch this movie (or any other movie in that regard) without receiving mass emails or reading posting all over the internet on how this movie is bad for you and your children. If everyone focused their attention on more important events around the World, we would be far better off as a society. For everyone who does not want to see the movie…take the money you would have spent to see the film, along with drinks and popcorn and donate it to your local charities and just keep your opinions to yourself. And do not give me any of the free speech crap either!!!
please just relax. its a book folks.
Ok for one as a fellow Christian we are taught not to judge others as it is not our duty to and we should treat each other like we would like to be treated. Yes pray for our enemies and yes we are taught to help others seek out God and Jesus Christ, but it is the ultimate decision of the person whether or not they decide to let God into their hearts and let him guide you through life.
Everyone is a hypocrite, because even though I am a Christian I slip up and sin everyday because of what Jesus Christ has done for me by dying on the cross. We cannot hate one another or we are knowingly breaking one of the commandments, just like it would be for me to disobey my parents, or go over the speeding limit.
I don’t necessarily think you need to go looking for darkness to see it. If you open your eyes it’s all around you with things like abortion, swearing, murder, pre-marital sex, stealing, lying the list goes on for pages; as darkness is sin and sin is darkness unless you are one of God’s children you shall be saved from that darkness. Just like that land that is “cold and dark,” this land is exactly the same where sin is raging.
We also need to pay attention to how the mind works as each person will perceive what the movie portrays differently. It is sort of like asking two people to look at a cloud and ask individually what they saw in it, most of the time they will be seeing different things.
There are those Christians who also believe that doing “good deeds” will get them into heaven, like denouncing an atheist. This past sentence I have written could be seen as a judgement of someone where it isn’t my place, but people you need to wake up here. If you hadn’t noticed this world is a place full of God’s wonderful things, that the most wonderful creator has created. We destroy these things with our sins, but we also must be aware of how many things are so wrong, they seem appealing and right when in all actuallity they are false.
I could go on and on, all I am saying is that one sin is no greater than another as I was taught that all sin is treated equal in the eyes of God when it comes for judgement time. The Golden Compass is just as bad as any other movie that has things that would make God angry. We need to set our priorities here. What is more important money or everlasting life and love with Christ in a place far better than this here on Earth? Me I choose the 2nd, but as I said before it’s your decision wether or not to accept that Jesus is all around you no matter what you do. Satan is raging a battle that shall not be won!!!!!
See I know that I will pry be disagreed with or slandered against, I pray for those who do it because I’m sure they wouldn’t want to be treated this way, I’m open for people to believe what they wish, it is your choice but it would be better for you to choose the right thing. God says we must individually worry about our relationship with him and then help those who are helpless because they must be able to also help themselves.
I am a Deist and I have observed all the comments. When I watched the Golden Compass I could see the messages that “dogg” Christianity and religion as a whole. However I don’t believe it is right for Christian parents to keep thier children from seeing this movie because the author is a world-renouned Athiest. It is good for children to be exposed to many different religious aspects so that they may learn for themselves what is true. If you brainwash your kids in a certain direction they will grow to rebel against the religion and take overwhelming confusion when they are older. The best thing to do is to unbiasedly explain to the children who the author is and what his movie represents. You can’t “save” your chilren by shielding thier eyes from the ugliness of the world and convincingthem with fear which religion they need to be in.
people are making such a big deal. no one ever made a big deal about the cronicals of narnia and that supported christianty. i am an athiest and there is nothing wrong with expanding peoples minds to other beliefs.
Wow the ignorance in these comments is staggering. Just when I thought the world was getting somewhere I see religious stupidity like this. Religion causes nothing but willfull ignorance and wars, lets put and end to the violence and hatred, end religion now!
I have not seen the entire movie, but I dont understand what the fuss is about. There are thousands and thousands and thousands of movies which support religion…everything from Its A Wonderful Life to Ghost. You almost cant watch a movie without a hint of a miracle or angel helping out in the end…so please, religious people get enough films
Haha wow how can people in this day and age believe in something like religion? Don’t you feel stupid believing in mythology? I feel stupid just being around religious people.
My mate told me dat es minster told em dat dis whole movie was about killin god now i know dat the books are anti-christian but i’v watched the movie more times than i can count but every time i did not hint apoun a single bit of killing god or any anti-christian remarks the whole story is about a little girl trying to rescue her freinds and for those out there who will say that it doesnt matter what they say it what they do you are wrong it does matter what matter what they say so you lot can shut up now i’v being trying to convince my freind whos a full on christian that this movie has nothing to do with god and i dont belive that people should base the movie on the person who made it for you are all styrotypes thats about all i’v got to say on the subject and for those people who think im a christian trying to push my belefs im not nor am i an atheist im just somone who couldnt care eithere way so stop all this stuid fighting it just a bloodly movie
I should go ahead and drop by the strip club tonight, just to see what’s inside. Think I’ll bring my brother, his wife, and their 13 and 16 year old daughters with me as well. Then we’ll decide whether or not it was a good choice after the fact.
WAKE UP. Ignorance is NOT bliss… it can be deadly.
Philip Pullman states plainly, “My books are about killing God.” How much more proof does one need?
I love how no one complains about the religions of the world pursuing the theist agenda and indoctrination of kids with religion in disquise (like Narnia)
I leave this comment as a Christian teenager.
I started reading this series about 5, 6 years ago. I stopped after the first chapter, not because of any symbolism that offended me, but because the book was BORING
Honestly, I don’t go to a lot of Church, I don’t know my Bible, but I follow the core Christian belief to be a good person and to not do evil. I have delved into what could only be called “satanic”, such as video games like Diablo 2. I have studied different religions and am currently considering adapting my beliefs towards them.
I believe in a God that allows this. A God that allows all things to be said and done, because WE HAVE THE ABILITY TO. If God did not want us to do these things, He would have stopped us by now. If you are a truly evil person, then you will be judged. But if you read a book for entertainment, such as the Golden Compass, then you read it for entertainment! It’s not the author’s fault if you become Atheist.
That being said, I say people should read the books, see the film, and learn more about the world. It’s better than shielding them from it.
I have read this trilogy and watched this movie and I do agree that it is written from the point of view of an atheist but I don’t think it’s trying to teach children it . it’s a fictional way of expressing your own feelings, beliefs, and thoughts it really doesn’t matter; it’s a form of entertainment like Harry potter! meant for children and yes not as atheist but still the se pricipal. it’s fictional just because you watch or read it doesn’t mean you have to believe it. really people I’m fourteen and I’m sorry but why on earth does it matter. and since when did movies and books teach children things seriously I think a four year old could realize that it’s pretend.
Get a grip people it’s a film, kids are not interested in the athiest point of view they will think of the Golden Compass as a film of exploration and quest. The child is not going to think about this film being athiest and trying to kill god and etc… People are way to sensitive these days and also the film was years ago… Get a grip is my answer