A TIP of the glass to Dick Stevens, owner of the Elevator Brewery & Draught Haus in Columbus, Ohio. Mr. Stevens recently announced the recall of a batch of promotional t-shirts featuring a witticism frequently, but erroneously, attributed to founding father Benjamin Franklin.
This is according to a report from eNewsChannels.com:
Beer-themed web sites, brewing organizations and even "beer writers" are fond of quoting Franklin and his supposed love of beer — "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." But after recently hearing a lecture by Chicago-based brewing historian, Bob Skilnik, that convincingly asserts that Franklin was writing about rain, its nourishment of grapes, and ultimately, its conversion into wine, Stevens decided to do his part in correcting this historical inaccuracy.
"I hope that we can set the record straight about this little white lie that has been repeated for years," Stevens said in a press release. "I have no doubt that ole Ben enjoyed a tankard or two of beer with friends and associates, but this beer quote, while well-meaning, is inaccurate."
The aforementioned Skilnik, author of Beer & Food - An American History, has issued a challenge to promulgators of the quote to come forward with proof, reported my colleague (and fellow beer drinker) Bryce Eddings in 2007. There have been no takers so far.
For the record, here, in a letter addressed to André Morellet in 1779, is what Benjamin Franklin actually did say:
Behold the rain which descends from heaven upon our vineyards, there it enters the roots of the vines, to be changed into wine, a constant proof that God loves us, and loves to see us happy.
(Source: Isaacson, Walter. Benjamin Franklin: An American Life. New York: Simon and Schuster, 2003. p.374.)
• Follow Urban Legends on Facebook
• Follow Urban Legends on Twitter
More Questionable Quotes:
• Did Marie Antoinette Say 'Let Them Eat Cake'?
• Did Neil Armstrong Say 'Good Luck, Mr. Gorsky' When He Stepped on the Moon?
• Did JFK Say 'I Am a Jelly Donut' to the People of Berlin?
• Did Ronald Reagan Say 'I Hope You're All Republicans' to His E.R. Surgeons?
Comments
HOLY COW!!!!! Saturday, September 13 (two days ago), I got a birthday card from my colleages at the office with the alleged mis-quote from Franklin regarding beer.
I only came to this site to look up the validity of something I’ve been saying for years, but suddenly realized it was probably just another urban legend (this was was that Bob Marley died with ___ (7,18, 300, etc., depending on who tels the story) different species of previously un-identified species of head lice.
This blog entry on the Franklin quote being on the from page of urbanlegends.about.com really freaked me out. Spooky.
At any rate, the original quote sounds better!
Okay, just re-read my previous comment and I see all of the typos. Didn’t have time to proofread. Doh! All apologies, hope you can understand what I was trying to say.
Yah I think I heard it somewhere that Ben Franklin did enjoy that sort of stuff…..
Bing.com included this misquote on their home search page for Wednesday, September 30, 2009, which highlighted Oktoberfest in Munich. Hope they have their other facts right!
In fairness, I think the proper construction of that legitimate quotation is that Franklin is talking about wine, not rain, as the proof that God wants to see us happy, and that he references rain here as God’s instrument in the making of wine.
Yeah that’s a really good logic: Ben Franklin wrote a letter praising wine. Therefore he must have never mentioned beer as they are mutually exclusive to enjoy.
To me it sounds like he refined the thought he captured in a letter to be repeated in pubs. You guys are punks for defaming Ben Franklin’s relationship with beer. Slander!
HERE HERE….
RABBLE RABBLE
hahahaha! nice comment, I agree! It was a genious thing he wrote, he prob changed it up all the time to his own convenience
Okay, he probably did, but how can you quote him on it then? If any of you truly respect Benjamin Franklin, you will quote him only where he can be quoted, rather than put words into his mouth based on what you think he would have thought or said. It’s ridiculous to think that the false quote should bear any merit because “he probably changed it up to his own convenience” That’s absolutely ludicrous and unintelligible. So anyone who wants to use the quote “beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy” can use it (I myself think it is a wonderful quote) but don’t credit it to Benjamin Franklin, because it is a fact that he did not write that and you can never prove whether he did or didn’t use it like that for his own benefit. I honestly don’t understand why so many people care that this can no longer be credited to Franklin, I mean who gives a shit it’s still a great quote regardless of who first used it. Do you really need someone famous to back up your beliefs in order for you to feel secure about them? You can feel that way about beer whether or not Benjamin Franklin affirms it
Rabble Rabble
Bull Roar!! Why destroy an age old myth?
I like the misquote and the real quote.
I agree with beerfan. The existence of this wine letter, to a Frenchie, does not mean that he never made a similar statement about beer. In fact, this is a strong indication that he did make the statement about beer. Among other things, Franklin was an inventor, writer and politician. If there is a common element among these professions it is that they all tend to stick to formulas that work. Franklin probably made this quote about wine, beer, rum, tobacco or whatever he was enjoying that day.
ProfK;
It really doesn’t matter if your *think* Ben said it.
In order to quote it, you *must* provide the documentation to prove it. You can’t simply *assume* he said it. That doesn’t make it real; it just makes it your guess.
The author of the article doesn’t claim that Ben never said anything nice about beer.
The point is this: the quote — as it is often presented — is *INACCURATE*. The subject of that famous quote is Wine, not Beer.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Ben said nice things about beer. However, if you want an authentic Franklin quote on beer, don’t misquote what he said about wine. Instead do some research and document something he said about Beer.
The actual quote about vineyards is better than the one using the word, “beer.” I suppose beer was used to make the quote more catchy while the original saying that was used as a reference for this quote is yet another powerful statement by the great Benjamin Franklin.
I was going to comment but I forgot the subject.
founding fathers didn’t drink much beer. cider was the drink of the people, and most of the founders probably also drank wine.
Everyone of that era drank beer. Do a little research and have your facts straight before you make another ill informed statement. Beer was not only a staple of that age, it had been since the first civilizations. Not only was it a libation, it was a huge part of all classes diets. In fact in Old England it was more common than water, seeing how water was the carrier of many diseases.
I know Dick Stevens and was surprised to see him as the source here. Cheers to Dick!
I was hoping to find how the phrase evolved over time into the misquote of today (which I just saw passed off as truth again on Discovery…)
Several of the founding fathers were brewers so how can you say that they didn’t drink much beer!
Slander! I fail to see how proving one version of this quote disproves the other, you can not use negative logic to disprove the original version of this. Perhaps if you left your disdain for the oldest fermented beverage in the history of humanity aside, you could be more objective.
Cheers! You should have been a founding father!
The letter proves that he never uttered the beer quote about as much as it proves he never flew a kite. Whether he made the beer quote or not, it’s a good quote. I have a beer glass with the quote on it purchased in Philadelphia at the liberty bell gift shop. I’ll consider that proof enough that he said it.
Alan
I just made a mug that says “Alan thinks everyone who drinks beer is an idiot.”
Gee, i like that quote, and it’s on a beer mug, so that’s proof enough for me.
Your should NEVER let the truth ruin a good story (or quote)!! Personally, I like to quote Ben as saying ” Beer and Wine is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy”
In his own autobiography, he tells the story of his years in England, where he had to work in a warehouse. He had more stamina and endurance than most workers because they have been drinking beer almost all the time, whereas his favorite was water. It kept him fit and helped him save more money as most of the workers spent their money on beer for lunch and dinner.
Like all his contemporaries, he probably enjoyed a glass of wine or beer occasionally but its hard for me to believe he spoke such fondly of beer. In fact, again in his autobiography he criticises a couple of friends for their drinking habit and how it ruined their lives.
Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. There, I said it, now what?
No, but seriously, how many times have you caught yourself saying the same thing only slightly different. Who cares that I wrote a letter with a similar quote, it does not mean that I never stated the same to be true about beer. I love beer AND wine, and I would love to sit and have a pint (or a glass of wine) with all of you.
David Emery, you have disproved nothing!
“David Emery, you have disproved nothing!”
I wish I had a beer for every time someone’s said that to me.
Ha! Good one!
David, although you have indeed “proved” nothing (this beer on me), your argument is entirely sound.
Until someone produces a credible source for the “quote,” it is really just an “attribution.”
However, for the owners of T-shirts, Frosted Mugs, and can insulators everywhere, I must admit
“Commonly Attributed to Benjamin Franklin” is a little bulky caveat to a witty paraphrasing of the fact that Ben liked his drink.
Bottoms up, everyone!
As said in the John Ford/John Wayne movie, “The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance” by a reporter listening to the true story of who shot Liberty, “When legend becomes fact, print the legend.” So, with a tip of my bottle of beer to old Ben, I’ll stick with the “misquoted” version.
This is the perfect quote for
beerWINE lover’s and it should be promoted as such. Hell, they’re both in the same “fermented intoxicants” family. I think what Ben was really attempting to do was to align God with the pro-drinking crowd. Back in those days, it wasn’t uncommon for non-drinkers to cite God as a reason for abstaining from alcohol. However, we must not forget, the first miracle that Jesus performed was to turn water into wine.I believe research will indicate that Martin Luther is the author of the quote: “Beer is evidence that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
Interesting. I was at the Liberty Bell in Philly a couple of summers ago and they had a gift shop and one of the most prominent items were t-shirts and mugs with that on them.
Never believe anything you read on a T-shirt or mug….
… especially when there’s a price tag attached to it.
I’ve heard this before, but I haven’t ever seen the credit for who coined the quote – which is still a good line even if it isn’t actually attributable to Ol’ Ben himself.
Oh dear, the Discovery Channel is perpetuating the quote as by Franklin on their show, “How Beer Saved the World”.
could it also be possible that Ben or whoever was talking about the rain gathering in pots of barley and fermenting and turning into beer ……regardless its the same message whether its wine or beer
Actually, pretty sure he was talking about how awesome wine is. Please correct me if anyone here is better at dealing with older styles of language than I am (although I’m usually pretty good with reading old letters). http://infomotions.com/etexts/literature/american/1700-1799/franklin-paris-247.txt
“We hear of the conversion of water into wine at the marriage in
Cana as of a miracle. But this conversion is, through the goodness
of God, made every day before our eyes. Behold the rain which
descends from heaven upon our vineyards; there it enters the roots of
the vines, to be changed into wine; a constant proof that God loves
us, and loves to see us happy. The miracle in question was only
performed to hasten the operation, under circumstances of present
necessity, which required it.”
If you don’t feel like looking for the quote in the letter, here in the whole paragraph where it’s from. In the section of the letter, he talks about the religious and philosophical implications of wine.
The article implies that because Ben stated this about rain/wine, he could never have stated a similar phrase about beer. I mean, is it really only one or the other? This particular quote is definitely in the context of rain/wine; but, the existance of this context does not disprove that he expressed a similar thought about beer.
Actually, he’s really talking about the goodness of God, and His love and provision for us, and in that, His desire for our happiness…the rain and the wine are merely incidental to the subject of the text. He could have used any other provisional example as proof of God’s love of us. The POINT of the whole paragraph was neither the wine, nor the rain, nor in anyway shape or form the benefits of drinking anything alcoholic or non-alcoholic…it was that God LOVES and PROVIDES for us and DESIRES to see us HAPPY. It’s rather astonishing that today’s people can’t even comprehend that much from that paragraph!
Point is .. benjamin said alchol is created by rain which in turn is created by god &’ of course it makes us happy(:
MsMolly:
Says you. It can be read any number of ways. That’s simply your opinion of what he’s trying to say, nothing more than that.
Sounds a lot like the Second Amendment though, doesn’t it? I wish those old guys would have used good English, yo.
Google included this quote as valid I sure hope they get thier facts right
Awful lot of hullaballoo over the meaning of a frivolous quote attributed to a dead man about how a mythical psychopath’s apparent adoration is demonstrated by numerous phenomenons that are entirely explainable scientifically.
I mean, it’s either that, or god really hates people that live in climates where grapes can’t grow. Right?
Now I feel dumb for buying a decorative plaque with this very quote on it… Damn shame really.
And yet, Jimbo, you felt the need to comment on all this meaninglessness. You are so incredibly intelligent and droll! Post more for us, please!!!!
Are the rains, vineyards, the roots of the vine and subsequently the man-made alcoholic beverage called wine the ultimate proof that God loves us? Really! And I’ve always thought that He sent His only Son to die on a cross for our sins because He loves us. Ben Franklin’s remark is nothing short of blasphemy. What do you expect of a 33rd degree Freemason?
Another man blubbering about freemasons and stuff (above).
Anyhoots, quote or misquote, beer or wine, it doesn’t matter. Enjoy life and cheers!
Ok, so the quote is not word-for-word what Franklin wrote in his letter – but the conceptual spirit of the simplified version is identical.
I get really, really sick of these pompous twits that get off on nattering at us that “No quote attributed to any of the Founders is accurate.” If I were to translate the between-the-lines message of any one of these, it would boil down to: “Dig ME!”
So the quote’s not verbatim. Fine. So we’ll takeit on its own merits, thereby handily avoiding the logical fallacy of argumentum ad verecundiam.
Some people need to get a life, and it ain’t me…
Rabble, Rabble, from now on just make it a quote from me. I dont mind taking credit for it. I think i said it before I knew I was (mis)quoting someone. So i expect from here on out to see everyone put in print… to quote the brilliant A. Palmer, “beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
End of argument.
Thank you, Mr. Spoil-Sport/Kill-Joy!
In truth, if one actually makes the EFFORT to read Franklin, he often admonished his employees and other to DRINK LESS beer. In response this this, he writes, the standard rationalization was that the wheat or other grain in the beer (the beer was very thick with grain) was nutrition. And his rejoinder was to eat bread for its nutrition, not drink beer.
(Ah! how our times are so slothful and contemptuous of truths!)
This is a good occassion to re-read Franklin’s autobiography, one of the best I’ve ever read. Too short, but engaging. In it he talks about his love of ale–and his strong belief in sobriety. It’s available for about $2 via Dover Publications, on line.
I like the original quote and the new one. According to me he said them both. Anyone who disagrees obviously needs another drink.
OK, so the letter says he was talking about wine, but that doesn’t mean he didn’t at some time also make the same quote about beer, maybe down at his local tavern over a tankard or two.
So yeah, looks like he is talking about wine which obviously has alcohol in it, so I don’t feel so bad misquoting and changing that to beer. Its all made by yeast anyway.
To paraphrase an Biochem proffessor: “Yeast are smart, when they lack oxygen, they make alcohol, we just make lactic acid.”
Quote still sounds neat-I’ll have another beer and think about it some more.
I’m guessing that ol’ Ben probably said something JUST AS PROLIFIC about beer that didn’t make the trivia page. I’ll go with that.
I love the quote & although under scrutiny & question I feel Big Ben was a good ol’ boy & would concur with our interpretation of what “given” quote…would haveloved to share a pint with the brother right now!…:) All the same WE all know what he was insinuating, god left natural means for us for comfort & relief, bottom line!
So it’s a paraphrase. Not entirely accurate but it accurately reflects the sentiments of the speaker (Franklin)
Franklin’s real quote is more eloquent, but who ever let eloquence get in the way of a good time.
I guaran-damn-TEE Benny’s original quote was shortened-up by a drunken redneck not too unlike myself.
Fact is, he wrote the one about wine, but he was ALWAYS saying the shorter version about beer to his friends.
Actually, I had heard that it was Martin Luther that made that statement. Not too difficult to believe, seeing that he was quite fond of downing a few at the local tavern. I had also heard that his friends called him “the King of Hops”.
Actually what Ben Franklin was referring to was rain nourishing the “wild weed’ plant, that of which he would partake in a pipe after a few glasses of wine and/or beer.
I don’t get why people are so upset at this article. It merely shows that on record we have the wine quote which is a beautiful quote. This article does not attempt to disprove the beer quote, It’s just saying that we don’t have proof of the beer quote but we do have this wine quote. If anyone here is so sure that Mr. Franklin did say the beer quote, then please offer proof, that would wonderful.
A Myth is a story that conveys the truth better than the truth… The “real” quote contains the truth that Ben is asserting that God’s process that lead to alcohol (in this case wine) is that God wants us to be happy. The point is alcohol, not rain. Rain grows wheat, grass, and cleans cobble stone streets all the same – be he doesn’t mention those things. Rain wasn’t the point, alcohol was the point.
The “beer misquote” condenses this authentic sentiment down much more cleanly and concisely without altering the underlying meaning. So, if it’s a Myth that Ben said those things, it’s a great one, and that’s why it’s flourished through the ages.
I have a quote from beerfan: “Blah blah blah, I’m a beer-swilling moron who has to wear adult diapers.”
Doesn’t matter if you actually said it or not. You conveyed that spirit in your post.
People, this is a site about debunking urban legends. If you can’t handle having your sacred cows slaughtered and refuse to adjust your conception of reality based on actual facts, maybe you should go and watch Fox News or something.
Besides, the original quotation is far more elegant and befitting of Ben Franklin. Toughen up, internet.
Subsequent to browsing through these posts, I now require both wine AND beer, for you have all transpired to both bore me and cause my head to ache!
How interesting that folks get so fond of a statement like this, that it really doesn’t matter to them whether it is true or not. I don’t think anyone is suggesting that Ben didn’t like beer, just that the quote attributed to him is misapplied.
I can look into his writings and find that he was fond of corn, and yet it doesn’t mean I should say, “Corn is proof that god loves us and wants us to be happy. -Ben Franklin”. Big difference folks.
Why does it make people feel better to misquote Franklin when they have reason to believe that he would have agreed with the misquote too? This isn’t a wine versus beer debate, it’s a he said it or he didn’t one.
“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” It doesn’t matter if Ben Franklin said it or not, the statement is the Absolute Truth! There would be no civilization at all without beer and I’ll drink to that!
You should all get a life
You are an obvious liar who spreads misinformation for the likes of Rupert Murdoch and the Koch Brothers. Americans and the whole world is sick of the lies and misinformation. “We never had WMD’s before”. Wow, this displays your believers’ ignorance. The Mongols used them to wipe out half a continent by catapulting dead Black Plague victims into western cities. When did you sell your soul and your descendents’ future to the devil or are you just an ignoramus? Why do you need our email address;to report us to homeland security and silence those of us who have a brain and heart?
The quote about wine failed to last. No one cites it. No one cares.
The beer quote is the only quote. True or not.
I initially found this because was researching the phrase. I loved reading ALL of the comments because I like to hear different opinions, philosophies, etc. I tend to dislike when people are attacking others for their’s. Ben Franklin was an innovator of many new ideas that have become part of today’s American life. It is people like him who made our country and the world greater for him going against everyday thinking. I would bet that when he expressed his views at the time, there were many who were as negative and harsh to him as I have seen others be in this thread to people who have also expressed their ideas and opinions.
Given the undisputed fundamental truth of the statement, does it matter who said it.
Theory – that there individuals dedicated to preserving historical facts, others dedicated to changing these facts, and some that do not care.
Proof – the misquote and comments on this page.
Old Benjamin Franklin would be rolling in his grave listening to your surmising. The man was an anti alcohol advocate. He promoted smoking pot. Learn your history. He has a lot of sayings against drinking.