First, it was labeled a forgery. When that failed to fly, the scanned document posted online by the Obama campaign in June 2008 was assailed for being a "short-form" computer print-out as opposed to an original, hospital-issued birth record. A cry went up for the release of Obama's "real" birth certificate, which conspiracy theorists said was being "suppressed" by the state of Hawaii.
Six months into his presidency and fully a year after the Certification of Live Birth was released, a small but increasingly vocal minority still demands to know why President Obama "refuses" to show his birth certificate.
The proper response, of course, is that he already has.
Read the details...
Comments
Dave,
what is the chance you might be making a mistake on this? Does your birth certificate have a signature?
kind regards,
Brad
The chances are high of Dave being mistaken.
Hawaii will argue that this is the document currently considered official.
ALthough it lacks any signed attestation (which is the only characteristic of a true ‘certificate’).
News flash:
A birth Certificat is almost always within a couple days of the same age as the person it describes.
How old is this paper?
How old is the president.
What kind of mental lapse prevents people from seeing the validity of questioning this gap?
A man who went to college, got married, got passport(s) prior to 1997 surely had a document other than this inkjet version.
What on earth has gone wrong with us?
HAs our wishful thinking completely displaced our respect for the law?
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZmJhMzlmZWFhOTQ3YjUxMDE2YWY4ZDMzZjZlYTVmZmU=
http://www.gulf1.com/columns/pappas/pappasframe.htm
Read these articles and learn something, David. Did you know that one could obtain a BC for their child just by asserting that they were born in Hawaii?
here is an excerpt for your readers:
BC2. In 1961, if a person was born in Hawaii but not attended by a physician or midwife, then all that was required was that one of the parents send in a birth certificate to be filed. The birth certificate could be filed by mail. There appears to have been no requirement for the parent to actually physically appear before “the local registrar of the district.”
Stop covering for Secret Obama. I noticed you did not mention with certainty what hospital was involved or the Doctors name. Snopes even posted one hospital and then had to change it.
Why has he sealed every other record that might shed some light on his background?
I rest my case!
Mr Emery,
The Certification of Live Birth you mention is a document that, according to Hawaiian law, certifies that the State has in it’s archives an original birth record or a Certificate of Live Birth. The Certification provides a limited amount of information about the original record held in the State’s archives.
What you may not know is that in Hawaii, there are several ways one might obtain a birth record. The released Certification only indicates that a birth record exists but it does *not* indicate how that record was obtained. That information is contained only in the original birth record.
It could be that Mr Obama was born in a hospital, in which case the original record would contain the name of that hospital. Unfortunately, Mr Obama and his family and staff are on record over the years stating multiple hospitals as his birth hospital. So those waters are a little muddy.
Mr Obama might have obtained an original birth record by the affadavit of a family member. If this is the case, it brings up the question, why wasn’t he born in a hospital? I mean, the guy has written not one, but two auto-biographies. One would think that there would be a story in his family about his birth if he wasn’t born in a hospital. Was he caught in traffic? Were they out camping? Well, the original birth record would contain that information in the affadavit.
Let’s not forget that Mr Obama has spent a large amount of time and certainly legal expenses to avoid allowing Hawaii to release the details of the original birth record. Why on earth would he do that. A quick count from one of the websites that is tracking these cases (http://www.therightsideoflife.com/?page_id=1518) shows at least 25 different legal actions and Mr Obama has lawyers filing briefs in all of them.
As Obama said in his book “Dreams of my Father” at the bottom of pg 26 ( http://books.google.com/books?id=HRCHJp-V0QUC&pg=PA26&dq=obama+dreams+father+%22birth+certificate%22&lr=&as_drrb_is=q&as_minm_is=0&as_miny_is=&as_maxm_is=0&as_maxy_is=&as_brr=0#v=onepage&q=&f=false )
“I discovered this article, folded away among my birth certificate and old vaccination forms, when I was in high school.”
I wonder why he didn’t release a copy of his original birth certificate, instead opting to request a new short form version from Hawaii.
I hope you are open-minded enough to consider the possibility that you don’t have the whole story. Isn’t that a primary tenet of reporting?
Andy W
Brad,
The certificate is signed and certified. Hi-res images of the full document, front and back, are available for viewing on FactCheck.org. Read the full article.
Nate,
The document is signed and certified. Read the full article.
Dave I don’t consider millions of Americans a “a small but increasingly vocal minority” You Libs can try to downplay Obamas hiding of all of his records all day long. The fact of the matter is you and those like you are in DENIAL!! You are trying to convince your self that nothing is wrong here. Hello…..Wake up……The man is hiding something and you know it.
Why is my last comment being sensored? Because I provided your readers with actual facts about the many ways one could obtain a BC in 1961 including just stating that someone was born there without a physician!
Google, Col Bob Pappas’ letter to Heraldo Rivera:
An excerpt:
In the State of Hawaii, back in 1961, there were four different ways to get an “original birth certificate” on record. They varied greatly in their reliability as evidence. For convenience, I’ll call them BC1, BC2, BC3, and BC4.
My comments are being censored as well
Also find Andrew C. McCarthy’s very well written piece in the National Review Online. He actually thinks he may have been born here but something else is fishy that O is hiding so releasing the long form BC will start to tell the real story.
Very well written piece!
GoodGrief,
By “Libs” you evidently mean folks like those lefty socialists at the Wall Street Journal who maintain, like I do, that the document is perfectly valid and sufficient proof of U.S. birth. It’s not a left or right issue.
Isn’t it funny how the left make such a big deal about the “Birth Announcements”; well if you get a BC in one of the 4 ways mentioned in 1961, I believe an automatic report goes to the local papers. So those “Announcements” are not proof that O was born there. Only proof that someone issued his parent or grandparents a BC.
To the folks claiming censorship — comments that contain multiple links go into an approval queue before they can be posted. They’ll show up. Be patient.
Hey Urban:
Have you read either of the documents I mentioned. You ought to.
I am a regular guy who senses something very wrong with the secrecy of this BO individual. Can you tell me why anyone, especially the POTUS would seal so many of his documents that would shed light on his life, college days, articles, passports, etc.
Please take a crack at commenting on this with intelligence, thanks.
Andy W. — very well written. Let’s see if anyone can respond intelligently.
Urban — thanks for that info. You are right on that comment at least; the stuff just hit the comment board. One thing you can tell is that I am really just an average guy who is concerned and NOT a hired gun for the crazy right.
Thanks all….back to work for me.
urbanlegends. Why does he not just show the log form BC? Does this not make you wonder? What all of you are saying is that factcheck.org is the beat all authority on this. I don’t buy it. It would be like you or me posting our drivers license online and telling the police to check there for it’s validity. And what about all of his other records that seem to have vanished into thin air? Now I know someone will most likely post comments about me being a racist but the true fact is that I am a realist. Something is wrong here and millions of us know it.
Thank you for posting my original comment in full. I retract the censorship comment.
A freind of mine has tried to leave an articulate message which I have read disputing this article with valuable insight. It appears as though you are there crushing any views opposing your article. Why would you do this unless you realize your article has no basis for facts.
To all the people that say Obama is legitimate, I would like to know if your decision was based on faith or facts? If it’s faith, I’m not persuaded. If it’s based on facts, show them to the world so we can evaluate them for ourselves!
If Obama has a long-form, why doesn’t he show it? If he doesn’t have one, why not? People that hide things, usually have something to hide. He works for us. We have a right to know! We have a right to demand it!!!!!!!!!!!! We need to send a message to Obama and to EVERY OTHER POTENTIAL VIOLATOR OF OUR RULE OF LAW!!!!!!!!!!!
OBAMA, STOP HIDING. SHOW US THE LONG FORM BIRTH CERTIFICATE!!!!!
Birthers need to start demanding a new law to prove “natural-born” status for future presidential elections. Obama’s position on that legislation will “show his hand.”
The time lines, places, actions, motives, when analyzed, support, and are consistent with, what is the answer to the Obama birth puzzle:
Obama’s grandmother is his mother and his mother is his sister.
Think about it. Review all the facts and claims.
JUST SHOW THE ONE IN HAWAII THAT IS UNDER LOCK AND KEY……….
This is not a birth issue, it is the failure of the Democratic National Committee to properly vet a presidential candidate. The DNC placed their interests over the citizens of this Country in doing so.
Keep in mind this is not a Republican or right wing issue. This issue first arose in the Hillary blogs as early as December 2007. The DNC had months to vet Obama and answer this. Can anyone find a cite to the DNC where they state that they vetted Obama? Keep looking because it is conspicuous by its absence.
So what is the issue? Proof. Plain and simple the COLB produced by Obama does not prove or disprove his birth in Hawaii. The reason is simple. In the 1960’s Hawaii immigration laws were so lax that anyone could walk in off the street and declare they had a baby at home and get a birth certificate. No witnesses or verification required. Those laws were changed in the 1970’s, but birth certificates issued before those laws were changed are suspect.
Obama has claimed in writing and in public that he was born in a specific hospital in Hawaii. That evidence, or proof, is only contained in three locations:
1. The original birth certificate issued in 1961 which Obama claims is lost.
2. The vault records that the State of Hawaii have announced they are holding and can be released if Obama signs a release, but Obama has refused to do so.
3. The records from the hospital, which Obama has again refused to release.
So, if the vault records confirm Obama’s claim that he was born in a hospital in Hawaii fine.
But, if the vault records state that Obama was born at home, in a taxi, or somewhere there were no witnesses is the issue. That would require further proof to confirm that he was actually born in Hawaii. It would also raise a credibility issue with Obama as to why he would lie about where he was born.
Another interesting aspect of this story completely left out is an alleged break-in at the US passport office to cleanse Obama’s records before the primary. Here is an article that discusses it and the ties that Obama had to the owner of one of the companies. Also note that one of these employees that committed the break-in that was cooperating with investigators was found shot to death in unexplained circumstances.
“Then, on April 17, 2008, Lt. Harris was found fatally shot dead slumped over the steering wheel of his car in front of the Judah House Praise Baptist Church in Northeast DC. The Washington Times reported that Lt. Harris was a key witness cooperating with the federal probe into the State Department security breach. Lt. Harris’ mother, Cleopatra Harris, told ABC affiliate WJLA-TV that she believed her son’s murder may have been due to his role in the federal investigation.
“Yes I do. I think it had a hell of a lot to do with it,” Mrs. Harris said. “[The story] made my son appear to be a snitch.”
http://www.therightperspective.org/2009/07/24/security-breach-may-lead-to-obama-natural-born-status/
Obama needs to sign the release and present the vault records that the State of Hawaii says they have and we all know they have. The continued stonewalling of Obama to produce these highly relevant documents is what will continue to drive this controversy. The fact that he has the liberal press in his pocket has been a substantial benefit in trying to discredit this legitimate item of proof.
This is so simple that it is crazy. Just show me a valid Hawaii state document with the name and signature of the attending physician along with the name of the medical facility. I will be perfectly content and will swear to all who will listen that BHO was born in these great United States.
This will make the entire birth certificate thing go away permanently. That will leave only a few more questions. Among these are the question of his father’s dual citizenship and how that relates to “Natural Born” status per our constitiution; BHO’s enrollment in an Indonesian government school when only citizens of that country were allowed to attend such schools (AP photographer’s images show the actual documents); and school records from several institutions of higher learning that indicate his nationality at enrollment. I would imagine that there are others floating around, but those are the ones that come to mind.
Of particular interest to me is BHO’s status when in Indonesia. The school enrollment would seem to dictate a change of status from US citizen to Indonesian citizen as Indonesia did not allow dual citizenship status at that time. BHO could have re-established his US citizenship status by swearing an oath of allegience before the proper authorities. The troubling part is that this would provide BHO with “Naturalized” status and NOT “Natural Born” as is required by our constitution. His travel to Pakistan circa 1980 would seem to support his Indonesian citizenship at travel to that country by US citizens was banned at the time and Pakistan was a VERY dangerous environment for US citizens.
You can attack me as a crazy nut job neo-con, but I can assure you that I am neither Democrat or Republican and have looked at this issue in depth to find if it has merit. Since I have not seen any concrete facts supporting “Natural Born” status, I will have to remain skeptical until such time as the evidence is presented. I would hazard to say that every single person I know who claims to be a US citizen can produce a document showing a physician’s name, signature, and the name of the medical facility where the birth occured.
Why can’t my president?
And, in an unrelated story – half of all Americans are of below average intelligence. Surprisingly, many of them still somehow manage to post comments to message boards.
DEMOC-rat
BARACK BARRY HUSSEIN MOHAMED ABDULLAH SOETORO ONYANGO 0BAMA
ILLEGAL ALIEN, kenya / mombassa
There is enough smoke off this lawyer to hide a freight train. He lied about “transparency” in not entertaining lobbyists as in campaign promise #____.
He did say he intended to redistribute the wealth but kept his “manufactured crisis” methodology secret.
The USA has been staggering under runaway spending, unfunded mandates…lately Draconian healthcare control in name of “reform” and change. TRUTH will never come about birth certificate as WAS BORN IN KENYA…why would grandmother lie…half brother lie? I don’t think so. But a Kenyan would lie to become a US President.
The day Obama shows his real BC is probably the day he can no longer be president
My friends get ready for a huuuuge crisis soon
Sorry, but have to say it like it is, Dave Emery, you do not belong on About.com other than in the HUMOR section, with nothing more than your picture as the punchline…
You’re an idiot.
Obama has NOT released his long-form birth certificate. The “Certification of Live Birth” is a computer generated copy known as a “short form” which is not even close to the original long-form certificate.
When Obama was born in 1961, registration of foreign born children was legal (as it still was after the 1982 additional law). Had Barack been born in a Honolulu hospital, he would have a long form birth certificate with the hospital named.
Tell us Dave, since Obama has “already released” his birth certificate, exactly which hospital was Obama born in? What physician was present to document the birth? … when you can answer those two questions with some kind of proof, you may gain some credibility . Until then ?
Obama’s Birth Certificate is a diversion tactic, because he could have been born in the White House, and he still would not be eligible to be president. Obama, himself, has proved his ineligibility, because his father was a citizen of Kenya at the time of his birth.
Natural is what one is born with, like blond hair. In reference to “natural” born citizen, natural refers to the allegiance that one gets from both of their parent.
“Born” refers to one’s place of birth.
“Citizen” refers to the status that one is at the time they are qualifying as president.
The inauguration of Barack Obama created a line of demarcation, as to which side of the constitution one can be on. As of January 20, 2009, the federal government under Obama is 100% illegitimate, and the enemy of the constitutional government. Giving your allegiance to a usurper will put you on the illegal side of the constitution, making you an enemy of the constitutional government. This was a coup d’état to take over the constitutional government by the enemies within. Obama is just a sock puppet. Those that support and defend Obama are treasonous against the Constitutional Government, consequently need to be put on trial for treason, and when found guilty, executed for crimes against humanity.
When one realizes how deep this goes and who are behind him that are as complicit and guilty of treason, as he is, the only way to get back the constitutional government, is to hold a court of sovereignty, try them and when found guilty, then execute them for their crimes against humanity.
Attorney files motion for authentication of alleged 1960s certificate from Africa.
WASHINGTON – California attorney Orly Taitz, who has filed a number of lawsuits demanding proof of Barack Obama’s eligibility to serve as president, has released a copy of what purports to be a Kenyan certification of birth and has filed a new motion in U.S. District Court for its authentication.
The document lists Obama’s parents as Barack Obama II and Stanley Ann Obama, formerly Stanley Ann Dunham, the birth date as Aug. 4, 1961, and the hospital of birth as Coast General Hospital in Mombasa, Kenya.
No doctor is listed. But the alleged certificate bears the signature of the deputy registrar of Coast Province, Joshua Simon Couya. It was allegedly issued as a certified copy of the original in February 1964.
wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=105764
The libs ask why anyone would get a birth ceritiicate after the fact. They would because everyone wanted to be a US Citizen back then. Also as for the newspaper article the parents and the grandparents both would want to announce the birth because that is what everyone did back in those days.
I also think our military chould refuse to obey Obama’s orders until he is proven to be the legit president. Every Military member swore an oath to he Constitution not the President.
I would like to thank all the ‘birthers’ here for continuing to make this an issue. Nothing makes you and the Republican party of NO look more foolish and borderline insane. By extension, anything that the ‘conservatives’ propose will be looked at as the suggestion of right wing nut jobs. You do a great disservice to the conservative movement and I thank you. Consider therapy or at least stay away from firearms.
Concerning time in Indonesia and rumor that affected his citizenship. It wouldn’t have mattered if he’d been adopted by 12 Indonesians. It is impossible for a minor to renounce his citizenship and it is impossible for a parent to do it for him.
Well guess what! The real birth certificate showed up. Obama was born in Kenya and is NOT EVEN A CITIZEN OF USA. He is foreigner usurper criminal.
His mother Stanley Ann was in the hospital in Mombasa Kenya. Grandma registered the birth in Hawaii. mother was too young to confir US Citizenship at birth outside the USA.
http://lamecherry.blogspot.com/2009/08/what-i-can-tell-you-about-kenyan-obama.html
Is by far the best explanation of the Obmama Kenyan BC. do not miss reading this.
Sorry – this is an obvious fake. There are many things wrong with it, which are fully detailed at WashingtonIndependent.com. But to start with – any certificate claiming Obama was born in Mombasa Kenya in 1961 has to be fake because Mombasa wasn’t part of Kenya in 1961 – it was part of Zanzibar.
JOHIO: You speak from a position of today’s law regarding citizenship of a minor child. The appliciable law is in fact the law that was in effect at the time when BHO was in Indonesia. At that time, our law stated that the citizenship status of minor children mirrored that of the guardian parent. Secondly, non-Indonesian children were not allowed to register for nor attend Indonesian state schools. Hmmm…now ask yourself, if only Indonesian citizens were allowed to attend Indonesian schools and BHO was attending such a school, what do you suppose his citizenship status was at the time???
Sorry – you are incorrect. I used to be a foreign service officer so I’m well aware that citizenship rules can change over time. However, the rule that a child is a citizen if born in the US regardless of parent’s citizenship comes from 1898 Supreme Court decision, US vs Wong Kim Ark. And, why does your saying that US law at the time determined citizenship based on guardian parent change anything? His guardian parent was Ann Dunham. Or are you saying SHE wasn’t a US citizen?
Second – Indonesian rules are totally beside the point. What matters are US rules. Indonesian law does not determine us citizenship.
Sorry, forgot to cite the other Supreme Court decision that’s applicable: From May, 1939 – Perkins v Elg. That one specifically states that a child born in the US cannot loose citizenship if taken abroad as a child even IF both parents took citizenship in the foreign country.
#38 & #39 johio: Thank you for your clarification on this matter for me. I stand corrected. Given your background knowledge on citizenship status and the fact that a minor child can not give up US citizenship, would a young BHO then held dual citizenship with Indonesia so that he would qualify for Indonesian schools?
johio: I decided to do some research on the 1898 SCOTUS decision. From that decision: “The foregoing considerations and authorities irresistibly lead us to these conclusions: The fourteenth amendment affirms the ancient and fundamental rule of citizenship by birth within the territory, in the allegiance and under the protection of the country, including all children here born of resident aliens…Every citizen or subject of another country, while domiciled here, is within the allegiance and the protection, and consequently subject to the jurisdiction, of the United States. His allegiance to the United States is direct and immediate…and his child, as said by Mr. Binney in his essay before quoted, ‘If born in the country, is as much a citizen as the natural-born child of a citizen…’”
At first blush, this statement would appear to support your contention. However, let us focus upon “If born in the country, is as much a citizen as the natural-born child of a citizen…” It is quite obvious that SCOTUS drew a very distinct line between a child born to alien parent(s) and one born to citizen parents. The child born to citizen parents is the NATURAL BORN CITIZEN. Any other circumstance produces a citizen child whos rights are equivelant to the NATURAL BORN CITIZEN, but can indeed never be a NATURAL BORN CITIZEN.
The Supreme Court is the one making this distinction, not me.
choprzrul: I doubt Obama ever had Indonesian citizenship since I’ve never seen any document indicating that he did. But even that would not have mattered. The 1939 case specifically cited a situation where a person did have dual citizenship and that did not affect his US citizenship in any way. Makes sense when you think about it. I can’t think of any country that would allow their minor citizens to lose their citizenship through no choice of their own.
One more thing to consider – what’s the source for the statement that Indonesian schools wouldn’t take a child who wasn’t a citizen? I could see a rule saying the child had to be a legal resident, but a citizen? That sounds suspiciously restrictive to me. I wouldn’t believe it without authoritative source affirming that it was true.
No, I’m sorry. You’re exactly misreading that to the opposite of what it says.
“A child born within the country … including all children of resident aliens .. is a citizen as much as the child of a citizen.”
In other words – if the child was born in the us they are a citizen. Now, if the child was born outside the US, then the parent’s status would come into play (and boy were those rules complex). But, for children born in the US, the parent’s citizenship didn’t matter.
This is an interesting point – I remember it being discussed in the late 70’s or 80’s. I was still in the foreign service then and recall that there was a change in the immigration laws to prevent minor children from petitioning for the admittance of their non-citizen parents under certain conditions. This was to try to limit the cases where women residing in the US illegally gave birth to US citizen children who then would “petition” for their parents to get green cards. But as I recall, then change in the law then dealt strictly with the parents rights to a visa – not the citizenship of the child.
Gray, in writing for the majority in Ark, held that “The right of citizenship never descends in the legal sense, either by the common law or under the common naturalization acts. It is incident to birth in the country, or it is given personally by statute. The child of an alien, if born in the country, is as much a citizen as the natural born child of a citizen, and by operation of the same principle.”
The question here is not one of citizenship status. BHO is most obviously a citizen of the US. The question is one of “natural born”. Gray choses to make a distinction between being a citizen and being a natural born citizen. They both have exactly the same rights, but only one can fulfill the constitutional requirements to be eligible for the office of president.
Keep in mind that Gray did NOT say that “The child of an alien, if born in the country, is as much a NATURAL BORN citizen as the natural born child of a citizen, and by operation of the same principle.” Gray made the distinction between status where the child of 1 or more aliens is obviously a citizent, they are and never can become a natural born citizen.
Link to the operative case law that johio is referencing in #38 and from which my #44 is copied from: http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/historics/USSC_CR_0169_0649_ZO.html
Please forgive my typos derived from fat fingers on the keyboard.
Very simply end this confusion. Have the potential hire fill out the required I-9 form to gain employment in the USA. If the document is completed properly the proof will be there. Has anyone seen documentation from ordinary employment on this person? If he has not done this before, every job he has held was in violation of the law, up to and including the current position. If his prior employers did not get the correct documentation, they are in violation too. As often as a BC is required for employment, business and travel, this man doesn’t have one……yet. Furthermore, if he cannot produce a valid passport from his travels, he has a lot to hide. He is creative, having written a book about a man he met once or maybe twice. All I ask is that he fills out the same documents the rest of us must. He is not above the law.
No matter the mystery surrounding the fake documents floating around the internet one thing is for sure, there is no birth certificate. If you spend over a million dollars in legal fees to prevent people from seeing your history there’s a problem. No transparency here.
I actually wasn’t citing those cases as proof of what “natural born” is, but that he was a citizen at birth. However, I still think you’re misreading it. Obama was born in the US, son of a US citizen. I don’t think that either of those cases argues someone in that circumstance is not a natural born citizen. I think they’re dealing with the cases of someone born in the US where BOTH parents are non citizens. However, I’m not a lawyer so don’t pretend to offer an authoritative position on that. I have seen discussion of one argument of the birthers that cites some French rule from the mid 18th century saying that both parents have to be citizens for a child to be considered natural born. But this discussion I saw indicated that was considered a pretty idiotic argument by lawyers and constitutional scholars. Wikipedia seems to have a good summary of the arguments put forth to date and citations of law and court cases if you’re interested in getting more details.
Harold – can you provide a citation for the legal fees paid by Obama to date? You’re using that as an argument to show he’s hiding something, so I assume you have some sort of proof of it?
What about this picture of Obama’s birth certificate in Kenya?
Would I be correct is asuming this would not be an issue if the President was white?
If you disagree if with Obama, you are an angry mob.
If you are a police officer, you are stupid.
If you are a doctor, you are a crook.
Who cares where this creep was born, he needs to go now!
Obama:”MY ADMINISTRATION WILL BE OPEN AND TRANSPARENT”
So we decided to ask for his Records:
Obama’s Primary School Records Please? = OFF LIMITS, sorry:)
Obama High Schoo Records Please? = OFF LIMITS, sorry:)
Obama NYU Records please? = OFF LIMITS, sorry:)
Obama College Records Please? = OFF LIMITS, sorry:)
Obama’s Harvard Records Please? = OFF LIMITS, sorry:)
Obama’s Drivers License Please? = OFF LIMITS, sorry:)
Obama’s Name Change Records Please?= OFF LIMITS, Sorry
Obama’s Passport Records Please?= OFF LIMITS, sorry:)
Obama’s Harvard Thesis Please?= OFF LIMITS, sorry:)
Obama’s Trip to Pakistan Records Please? OFF LIMITS, Sorry
Obama’s Medical Records Please?= OFF LIMITS,sorry:)
Obama’s US Birth Certificate Records Please?= OFF LIMITS, Sorry
Wow, who the hell is this man?
But he promised transparency and openness
Don’t worry, we got Obama’s Kenyan Birth Certificate. We know why Obama won’t release his records. The name on those records read Barry Soetoro Dunham, an illegal Indonesian citizen, suspected of having murdered 6 US Citizens.
Case closed!
Obama has to step down now,
He is a Kenyan born USURPER who holds Indonesian citizenship and is helped by The Nazi-Commie Congress and the treasonous US Media..
I have a document showing that the Birther Movement is actually the creation of space aliens from the Planet Pon (don’t try looking it up – a vast conspiracy has kept it out of the “official” records) and this is their tactic to sow discord among us and make total lack of logic and reason appear legitimate so that they can take over the US.
If you don’t believe this, then show me a document that proves it’s wrong.
Obama:”MY ADMINISTRATION WILL BE OPEN AND TRANSPARENT”
So we decided to ask for his Records:
Obama’s Primary School Records Please?= OFF LIMITS, sorry:)
Obama High Schoo Records Please?= OFF LIMITS, sorry:)
Obama NYU Records please?= OFF LIMITS, sorry:)
Obama College Records Please?= OFF LIMITS, sorry:)
Obama’s Harvard Records Please?= OFF LIMITS, sorry:)
Obama’s Drivers License Please?= OFF LIMITS, sorry:)
Obama’s Name Change Records Please?= OFF LIMITS, Sorry
Obama’s Passport Records Please?= OFF LIMITS, sorry:)
Obama’s Harvard Thesis Please?= OFF LIMITS, sorry:)
Obama’s Trip to Pakistan Records Please? OFF LIMITS, Sorry
Obama’s Medical Records Please?= OFF LIMITS,sorry:)
Obama’s US Birth Certificate Records Please?= OFF LIMITS, Sorry
But he promised transparency and openness
Don’t worry, we got Obama’s Kenyan Birth Certificate.
Case closed!
Obama has to step down now,
He is a Kenyan born USURPER who holds Indonesian citizenship and is helped by The Nazi-Commie Congress and the treasonous US Media..
Dashark,
Your comment is the best possible example of what is wrong with the birther position. You’ve made it clear that NO MATTER how many officials state that Obama’s birth records are correctly on file and show he was born in the US, you won’t care. He shows his birth certificate, now you want his grade school records. Then all his travel records, then, not doubt, the comments of his teachers on his report cards. No one can show you proof, because you believe what you want to believe. That’s fine, just don’t expect anyone else to regard you as rational or adult.
To the foreign service person, I’m sure you are familiar with the US Foreign Service Manual Section 1131.6-2 Eligibility for President
d. This statute is no longer operative, however, and its formula is not
included in modern nationality statutes. In any event, the fact that
someone is a natural born citizen pursuant to a statute does not
necessarily imply that he or she is such a citizen for Constitutional
purposes.
7
d. This statute is no longer operative, however, and its formula is not
included in modern nationality statutes. In any event, the fact that
someone is a natural born citizen pursuant to a statute does not
necessarily imply that he or she is such a citizen for Constitutional
purposes.
7 FAM 1131.6-2
Eileen: I admit that I did not memorize the contents of the Foreign Affairs Manuals. But what’s your point? I don’t know what statute this section of 7FAM is referencing (is it talking about someone born in the US of an American mother?), but I doubt that the Supreme Court would consider a set of state department regs determinative of what a “natural born citizenship” for Constitutional purposes in any case.
Bottom line: President Obama was born in Hawaii and his mother was a US citizen. Now, did you find anything in the FAM saying this DOESN’T make him a natural born citizen.
I say screw all this cover up bullsh%%.What other president in this country every hid his true birth certificate? Obamma is a lieing piece of garbage.so are all the democrats that didn`t check him out and now they will die trying to protect that information.The world knows that common sense tells them he is lieing.How could our government cover this up? The people want truth. we deserve truth.Maybe someone with enough guts in Hawaii will break into those hidden vaults.
COME ON OBAMMA,SHOW US THE DAMN PAPERS
In regards to anything of validity coming from FactCheck.org…
NOTE:..FactCheck is owned by the Annenbergs….same people who own the Annenberg Foundation..where Obama and Bill Ayers worked together…both communists…both working within the Annenberg foundation….
So I would say that this source is not valid..and in favor of Obama and are biased towards him..so myself I do not accept anything they put up…
Tessa:
And your reason for not accepting the word of state officials of Hawaii is what?
The main reason anyone should take the statements made by officials from the State of Hawaii with a grain of salt is that:
1) Their first statement never gave any details, instead it was vague and basically stated that a document was on file and they had seen the original themselves.
2) Their second statement made the claim that even though it is illegal for State Officials to give out details on birth certificates, that they could confirm Obama is a Natural Born Citizen.
The only way Barack Obama could be a NBC is if he lied about his father in his books and websites, and his real father was an American Citizen in compliance with the well established requirements of the Constitution, and as defined in Vattel’s referenced work “The Law of Nations”.
http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=105904
http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=105616
Sunnstar: You are wrong on all three points:
1) Hawaii official’s first statement was made in response to claims that the scanned certificate on Obama’s web site was a forgery. They answered that question: it isn’t a forgery, it’s a correct copy of what is on file.
2) Hawaii has laws governing release of private info, as all states do. In response to endless calls, and people asking questions, they nonetheless confirmed what had been previously stated and made it even more explicit. So, how does the existance of privacy laws make the statement of the officials a lie?
3) You’re seriously going to claim that a work written in Europe in the mid 1700’s should control US understanding of what natural born citizenship is? Why? What makes that work the standard we should follow? Other, of course, than the fact that it says something you like. Oh, and you are aware aren’t you, that we’ve had at least one other president who had a parent who was not an American? Or does a mid-18th century work by a Swiss scholar carry more weight that actual US precedent? And doesn’t the fact that the Chief Justice swore him in indicate anything to you about what actual constitutional experts might think of this? Why is Vattel’s opinion more correct than John Roberts’?
I noticed that when I voted “Yes” for President Obama’s birth certificate authenticity that my vote never tallied. So, I had five other people vote the same (birth certificate is legitimate) & it still didn’t tally. White people, don’t be so evil. This just goes to show that you people are poor loosers & even though President Obama won the race fair & square, you still find little ways to try to “cheat” people into believing that a non-white, especially African Americans still need to be validated according to the white mans’s “green-eyed” concepts. Get a grip!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
“You’re seriously going to claim that a work written in Europe in the mid 1700’s should control US understanding of what natural born citizenship is?”
Sadly, I think the birthers are. What they don’t understand is that the early common law dictates that above anything a swiss scholar wrote which isn’t included in the Constitution, as first the common law of England (and then of Britain) existed as American law prior to the revolution and formed the basis of the US constitution and the ideas contained within it, especially in regard to rights and citizenship. (US courts still go back to before the revolution on occasion in some judgments. It’s also why French law still applies in some limited cases in Louisiana.)
The other clue: It’s also why the criminal justice systems of the US and other former British colonies like Australia, Canada and New Zealand, and of Britain itself, are near identical.
And nowhere, still, no matter what the birthers might say, does the Constitution a) explain exactly what the framers meant by natural-born citizen, b) explicitly mention that a president has to be born on US soil, or c) make any distinction between US citizens who are citizens jus soli (soil) or jus sanguinis (blood). British common law as it applied to America does, however, give a fair explanation, and the framers turned to it extensively when they were trying to work out what to do.
On that score, Congress, BTW, decided in the late 18th century (1790) that natural-born citizen status could apply to US citizens at birth (ie born to American parents) even if they were born OUTSIDE the US (jus sanguinis). That’s a decision made by Congress over 200 years ago.
This whole, ridiculous argument is an absolute crock. One day, the Supreme Court might intervene just so sanity can prevail and make a definitive statement on what a natural-born citizen is but until then, the law isn’t totally clear as defined (or rather NOT properly defined) in the Constitution of the United States itself.
Which means instead of making stuff up, you go by the laws you know already apply, including the common law prior to the revolution, the 14th amendment, statutes, other legislative decisions made on citizenship, including that decision of Congress on jus sanguinis, and the many mentions of citizenship made in Supreme Court judgments.
Not, certainly, in the writings of an obscure 17th century Swiss scholar that has no legal basis.
Just because birthers want something to be right, doesn’t mean it is right. In this argument, that natural-born aspect of it has more holes than a Swiss cheese, pun intended.
An email today (Sep 19)states “Trial for Illegal president” set for January 26, 2010. Is this true?
http://disc.yourwebapps.com/discussion.cgi?id=149495;article=126405;search_term=carter
STS’s comments – “This whole, ridiculous argument is an absolute crock. One day, the Supreme Court might intervene just so sanity can prevail and make a definitive statement on what a natural-born citizen is but until then, the law isn’t totally clear as defined (or rather NOT properly defined) in the Constitution of the United States itself.”
I agree, STS. It is a crock that the citizens of the USA would be dumb enough not to challenge O’s own citizenship. You talked a lot of turd about what a naturalized citizen is and how it’s not defined in the constitution but you couldn’t be more wrong. You know full well what a naturalized citizen is as do most astute Americans. The bottom line is that if there were no impropriety, why would O spend a fortune to keep records and documents including his actual birth certficate hidden from public view? Who does this unless they are hiding something? I have a hard time believing that there isn’t some funny business going on here but what’s most disturbing is people like you who profess to know there is no impropriety yet don’t want to see the courts demand proof on behalf of the good citizens of the USA. We SHOULD question this and ultimately we’ll ALL benefit from the truth so let’s have the full disclosure he promised during his campaign and see if he’s been hiding anything. If his elligibility is found to be valid then we’ve put this nonsense to rest but if he is not a citizen he needs to step down and that’s why people like you are so afraid of the truth. We need to know the truth whatever it may be so stop supporting non-disclosure so we can end this debate. The truth shall set you free!
The ’small minority’ has become 25 percent of America now (CNN poll). The big scandal is about to erupt?
This issue will never go away. The next President can have every law Obama signed nullified by challenging Obama’s elgibility.